Opinions on a possible Jukebox lot purchase

[zelgy]

Hi all! First I want to say it is great to have a forum like this for us Jukebox lovers to share information.

I am new to the jukebox restoration world, so bear with me and my ignorance.  I have been in contact with a gentlemen who has the below jukeboxes for sale. All I have to go on is a very grainy photo and brief descriptions, so I understand this may be impossible to answer.  I just restored my first jukebox, a Seeburg STD4 Mardi Gras, and found it to be an absolute blast. I've caught the restoration bug if you will.  I am curious if these units are worth the money he is asking, which is $900 for all 5.  He seems to be willing to take less as he wants to get rid of them soon.  I'd appreciate any input as I don't want to dive into something that may cost me a fortune. 

Seeburg DS160 (carriage moves and amp comes on)

Seeburg PFEA1U (carriage moves and amp comes on)

Rowe/AMI Model JAN (picks same record every time, amp works)

United UPA-100 (there are 2 of them, issues unknown) 

 

[Ron Rich]

Hi Jon,
Don't know what to say--go for it !
Ron Rich

[cowbytes]

It all depends on what styles you like, how deep your pockets are and how vast your knowledge base is lol! Have fun and keep those jukes out of the landfills! James!

[jukeboxmarty]

Condition is everything!

The 'discotheque' (PFEA1U) does not seem to have it's original graphics. It doesn't look like it's in the best shape.

I will point out that the 'DS' does have it's 'ears' (directional speakers). These speakers alone can sell for a few hundred dollars or more.

The United's are interesting machines, but sometimes it can be difficult to find a buyer for them; They don't have the best reputation for reliability.

As with all jukebox purchases, make sure each machine is relatively complete (especially the Uniteds).

[robnyc]

Zelgy, my choices would be;

Seeburg DS. The last of the Seeburg machines w/visible mech. The electronics are reasonable straight-forward. Check for buried-boiled-out transformers.

Rowe Model N. Simple electro-mechanical mech -no electronics involved with the selection process which is all low-voltage and adequately fused (check fuses for correct values). The problem you describe is usual due to failed cancelling of a secection pin which in-turn stems from dirty slip rings or faulty micro switches on the stop switch assembly. Bone dry motors are common problems as are failing micro switches (easily replaced with current production). The amp is tube using 7868's (4) which do sometimes short though these "later" amps added fuse resistors to the G2 and plate ckts with will burn to protect the output transformer. I've owned both N and O models.

As for the PFEA1U. This has a few negatives for the newcomer. It was the first all transistor machine and had the system complexity of an LPC series. The amp is all germanium and the pickup uses the available but expensive "T" styli. You can upgrade to a later cart assembly and amp (TSA5 or later). They are fun if you are into seeing what tricks American ingenuity could teach an already 16 year-old mech design.

I have no experience with the Raymond Lowey United's but if they are cheap or in a package deal and you have room......

In all cases --get schematics and a manual at least for the PF-whatever :-).

Rob-NYC

[e093116]

Hi Jon,

I was in your position about a year ago, with one "restoration" under my belt, when I purchased 4 project Seeburgs from an ex-operator.

Some of the questions my "circle of trusted advisors" (as well as myself) have asked are:

What is your end goal in terms of a collection?

Isn't this just "more of the same"?  (I hate this one)

Wouldn't you rather have one $5000 machine instead of 10 $500 machines?

Are you going to fix and resell in order to move up into a better/more collectible machine(s)?

My opinion in your situation would be to get the single best/most collectible machine that is there (the DS) and try to forget about the rest, unless the condition & design/styling of the other machines particularly appeal to you, and if you have the space to store everything!  If you keep actively looking, there will be more and/or better stuff that comes up, you just need to be patient.

I'd offer $500 max for the DS and PFEA1U or $400 to take everything!  My experience is that everyone is after 1962 and earlier machines, and there are very few buyers for the later machines, particularly ones that don't work, and even fewer buyers that can actually show up and move the machine out of a basement, etc.  I certainly appreciate your enthusiasm, but keep these things in mind...as a buyer in this situation you significantly hold the upper hand, and don't be afraid to walk away from the deal.

Finally, only you can answer these questions for yourself...good luck with what you decide, and let us know what happens!

Bill 

[Ron Rich]

Hi All,
Well, first of all,I see no "discotheque" model there at all ? The ONLY "Discotheque" model Seeburg ever made, was the 1965 U-100D, which amounted to a revamp of the cosmetics of the U-100 (and the addition of a "Discotheque switch"--this same switch circuitry had previously been used in a LPC 480xx-D). The U-100D, was the first non-tubed phono, and used the same "operating system" as the DS models.
As for the PFEA models, there were TWO different operating systems in the same cabinet. One, the APFEA-1 (model named "Fleetwood"), was (almost)identical, in operation to the LPC models--it was the last "album playing" model built. The other one the PFEAU-1 ( or printed elsewhere by Seeburg "PFEA1U" ("Electra"), reverted to the prior play system used from the V thru DS models (only solid state). From the outside, these cabinets looked the same except for the graphic installed in the upper glass area, and the coin instruction window. These phono's were actually the 3rd (-U) and 4th gen., solid state phonos made. As for purchasing "Service Manuals", I strongly advise you read the FAQ's posted above--(BTW--there is a glaring error in the APFEA parts manual--the clutch page is incorrect-if needed, use a LPC parts manual. Ron Rich 

[robnyc]

Jun 9, 2017 14:04:34 GMT Ron Rich said:

Hi All,
Well, first of all,I see no "discotheque" model there at all ? The ONLY "Discotheque" model Seeburg ever made, was the 1965 U-100D, which amounted to a revamp of the cosmetics of the U-100 (and the addition of a "Discotheque switch"--this same switch circuitry had previously been used in a LPC 480xx-D). The U-100D, was the first non-tubed phono, and used the same "operating system" as the DS models......
 Ron Rich 

Ron, I had a U-100 w/disco package. The only thing the switch did was transfer the interior light from the white tube to the 20W black light tube. On the 480 it adds a roller linked switch which kills the readout when the mech scans any section other than the dedicated "Discotheque" section of records.    I never understood what use this would be --other than inspiring patrons to kick the phono when their non-disco selection didn't play. And really,  what location is going to pull the machine away from the wall, bend down to activate that switch? I can't even get them to pull them out out to clean under them.

Rob

[zelgy]

Thanks for the continued responses! The seller would like to get $300 for the DS160, which I believe to be a fair price. I'm going to line up a visit to check it out. I'll let you know what I end up doing.

[Ron Rich]

Rob, Jon,
I agree 100% on the "Disco packages" ! I have never seen it used in either phono--but I did see one used (from the state of LA), I assume, that came in to our distrib., where someone had moved that switch to the side of the cabinet ? That musta-been the only one in the world that was used ? --Upon rebuilding the 480D's (did over 500 of them--with/without the D package), our policy was to dis-able it, and steal the odd ball AC cube tap Seeburg used in it ! (anyone have one--I'll buy it !)

As Rob stated above--test for transformer failures before making offers. I like "United's" -- However, IMHO, they are "Pinball machines, that play records". Other then the mechanical record handling portion, they were designed using the same parts that were used in United's "Bingo Games". Ron Rich

[jakedaniel]

If you could get that DS-160 for $200-$300 bucks you'd be doing alright IMHO. Of course that's if everything is there and serviceable/repairable.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Jon,
When you look at it --check the following things.
1. The ID tag. Should have an "H" stamped on it after DS-160--May have a R also--
2. If there is an H there, it should be equipped with a dual coin acceptor, that can handle nickels, dimes,quarters, and half dollars-no "H", no Half dollars.
3.Pricing unit should be a USPU-1 ( or a UDPU-1)IF, the pricing unit has been mangled to achieve "Free Play" --be 150% sure the latch bar solenoid in the TES, does NOT remain energized at all times ! ( If using a "free play adaptor--all should be OK).
4. If a "R" is noted, phono was factory equipped with a RCSU-3 ("stepper").
5. The other correct parts for this phono are: Amp--a SHFA-5, A TSU-7.
Ron Rich

[zelgy]

I'll be sure to check for these things, thanks!

[zelgy]

Hi all! Well, I was finally able to visit the seller and look at the units first hand. I've included pictures I took of the Seeburg DS-160. Unfortunately, I could only do a visual inspection as the power cord had been cut. It certainly shows signs of wear, but for the most part intact from what I can tell. It is missing the coin acceptor, so not sure how big a deal that is. Lots of dust, protective layer as I like to call it, internally and on the electrical components. However, I see no sign of moisture or wires being chewed on by mice. As you may tell from the pics, the paint on the glass is starting to peel as well. Can new glass be purchased? Come to find out, he had never powered the unit up himself. I offered him $200 for the Seeburg. I have also included a pic of a Rowe that I told him I would purchase for an additional $100 as it appeared to be in fairly good shape other than needing a good cleaning. I look forward to thoughts on this one. Since I can only upload 3 images, I will include others in new posts.

 

[zelgy]

Additional pics.