Advice for repair/ideas, Rock-Ola 442, making some progress

[ollie]

Hi all.
I have a quick mechanical question: For the "Wobble plate Arm" ( that hits the little top switch on the Write out disc).

I can not make that thing move, no matter how I spin the disc, try to move it back and forth with my fingers manually.
Question: Im wondering if if that thing is perhaps stuck on my machine/plate ?

Am I supposed to move it manually in some faschion/at some point during the cycle? (or do they always appear unmovable?)
From reading the manual, it should move and hit the swith at a certain point, but mine is always in the same (pressed in) state..
kinda stuck there.


Another thing: is it common/does it happen old original Diodes (in the power supply) on these machines give up?
I´ll keep trying/measuring voltages thruout the schematics I have tomorrow.

Cheers, Ollie

[Ron Rich]

Hi Ollie,
Ya, the "wobble plate" must "wobble" ! Be sure ALL 'pins" are in the "un-selected" state. At that time the plate should "wobble" just enough to open/close the Micro witch up top. L@k at your parts list-- there should be a (copper colored) "U shaped, helper spring" near the coil-- it's a known problem ares ( often broken). Ron Rich

[ollie]

Thanks Ron, The thing is that it has a flat brass U-shaped "spring thingy" that presses against
the actual micro switch, but from my perspective, the spring makes the switch always
stay pressed in, meaning, it appears like - IF the Solenoid were to be presses in / getting movement in it-
the switch would still remain activated? which seems strange, why have a switch at all if it never clicks on/off...?
if you follow me.? (difficult in only words and no pics) I will try to message a pic perhaps?

But basically, I do not know if that spring/mounting is stock or if someone tampered with the switch for some unknown reason?
And also, maybe there is some mechanical breakdown in the disc/wobble plate that makes the little "lever" not move and stay stuck

in like that?

(Right now, I have a hard time understanding the reason it will not move.)

Cheers, Ollie

Here an example of how it should move I guess? (not my machine/clip)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6djhQVQ4HHQ

[ollie]

Here´s two good resolution images of my switch, valid for about 1 day.

Thanks for looking!

ibb.co/Y2kd2ZD

ibb.co/Tb36Bfd

Cheers, Ollie

[jukenorman]

Hi Ollie,
That copper U-shaped bracket should not be there!! Have a look at page 29 of your manual, there is a diagram of the wobble plate switch showing the switch made. The result of that "bodge" is that the play control relay would never relax so the the magazine would continue to rotate after the last selection had been played.
Norman

[Ron Rich]

Hi Ollie,
I agree with Norman-- I can't recall exactly how/where it goes , but my mind says "not there" ! Ron Rich

[ollie]

Thanks, Ill check and see what happens when/as I remove it..

[ollie]

Also, there is a (used to be) a loose wire ot the bottom, attached as some kinda ground, no idea where it went on the other end thou..?

pics coming.

[ollie]

Ok, here are some pic of the wire that was laying on the bottom of the cabinette when the machine as delivered..
I has never run after delivery to the owner, so, I was first suspecting this extra grounding thing/wire
was attached somewhere and neccessary and had come loose from two attching point, but I´m not so sure..
No idea what it might have been used for?

It seeems to have been attached to the chassis/box of the control box under neath? (looks like a home fabricated solution)
But I can not figure out if A: neeeded? 2. Where the other end went ? , just thoght Id let you know what I found..
For what it´s worth..


ibb.co/TLhg9Q6

ibb.co/1mJsCQD

[ollie]

Possibly earlier attached to (piggy backed) to/on the Service Toggle Switch? but who knows?...

ibb.co/BZ70Z4P

[ollie]

Also, I´m beginning to understand now, Making sure I reset / Resetting every little number/lever on the Wobble disc does indeed
make the Solenoid on the Wobble go Click! when the write in comes around, so, it appers to be working despite what I said earlier (my bad)

But, I will check the brass spring/and its adjustnmet/need..
Also, Im beginning to suspect the "Play Relay", it does indeed click when I press Scan..
But, The power does not reach the Scan/Magazine Motor..? I have not yet gotten
the Scan function to work.. ever..
It goes click, but nothing moves:


So, to summarize:
Ive tested:
1. Voltages: 28V AC and 33V DC OK. iks present in the power supply.
2. Fuses ok.
3. Lamp OK. (new one, and does "flash" after 1st phase of selection is made, write in)

4. the Diode attached to big "Play Relay" is tested with another new one, same result.. and seems ok, new Diode yeilded same result. (no Scan)
5. The Gripper Arm is fully cleaned/lubed and moves easy and free. Lots of WD-40 and what not..

6. Micro Switches on the cam, checked them all, they "seem" ok, meaning the all act exacly the same on/off...when going thru them/measuring
with the diode setting/beep function on multimeter.

So, back to the drawing board.. could it be something real simple Im missing?

7. Ive lubed the living heck out of the mechanics and it spins freely with the knob on the motors, But, I can by no means turn / spin
the magazine by hand, it is totally stuck, unless! (like mentioned) I grab the knurled knob on the actual motor and spin it, the it moves ok..

Also, never seen any voltages hit the motor (while measuring) when I try to scan etc..
So, it never gets that far I suspect..

Many Thanks! for reading,
Cheers, Ollie

[jukenorman]

Hi Ollie,
I think you need to concentrate on one problem at a time (my opinion, for what it's worth!). The magazine motor not running when you operate the scan switch is a manageable problem that I think you could tackle first.

When you operate the scan switch, it switches the ground side of the play control relay - first thing to check, does it come in (you say it clicks). Now you need to trace the 30V DC to the magazine motor. This is clearly shown in sequence 14 in your manual on page 30 (the only difference being that in your case you're energising the play control relay with the scan switch). The voltage goes through the play control relay contact, the interlock release relay contact, micro switch 1 and then to the magazine motor. There is also a partial parallel secondary route through micro switch 2 and the second interlock release contact.

Norman.

When you sort that, you can then look at the wobble switch.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Ollie,
Please stop and read our FAQ's section on "checking" MicroSwitches. NO switches can be "checked for proper operation", with a "beeper" ! Checking them that way only tells one the same as listening to them click-- they have/have not "clicked" ! Also--IMHO A can of "WD 40" should never be within eyesight, nor ear shot, of a jukebox ( read the FAQ on "Lubrication")! On that loose wire ? Was the "male section" of that quick-connect attached to the box with a rivet ? My great, but partial to lies, memory, tells me it was a "safety ground" for your safety when that box was un fastened from the housing ? Ron Rich

[ollie]

Ok, Cool, I follow you Ron, it has been relubed with some low viscosity oil after the WD40..but I know what your saying.

Norman! that´s great info, I will trace it like you said next chance I get to work on it..
Thing is, it is at the owners house, I have to go visit the guy when trouble shooting..never a fun experience..
You feel like your invading a bit, I would have preferred to have it at my own place/shop/garage whatever, but
not feasible at the present time..too heavy to move naturally

[Ron Rich]

Hi Ollie,
I'll sell you the "Tommy Lift" off the back of my truck-- My wife wants me to "get rid of" that truck anyway ( it's getting pretty shabby looking-- only has 480 + K, miles on it-- It's a 1982 Diesel Chevy , and I'm just getting too old to move phono's any more ! LOL Ron Rich