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Post by robnyc on Sept 12, 2017 20:19:47 GMT
Charles, I'm totally with you on this decision. I did a group loop repair in March 1994 -it was a one-time-only experience. You have to unsolder each readout loop connection to the rivets and I just snipped the links between units....after that it was "easy" :-).
I don't know how those were hand assembled on a mass basis back then....those doing it must have been living automatons.
When you do find a replacement tormat, I'd ask the seller to do a continuity check based on the schematic I posted and across the RCA plug. If the unit is directly off a mech it might be OK -but if it has been knocking around, tests are essential.
Good luck and keep us informed.
Rob
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Post by Ron Rich on Sept 12, 2017 22:36:03 GMT
Rob,
I remember being on the TMU line one day-why ? I dono--but there was no one working on TMU's that day. Can't recall who I was with, for sure, but remember the "caution" he gave me-- it went something like, if the old ladies are working, you don't want to make any noise, sneeze, or fart, in their presence-- I think that job paid "by the piece" ? Ron Rich
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Post by robnyc on Sept 13, 2017 1:33:56 GMT
Ron, i remember in early-mid '77 Seeburg sent a few guys to Al Simon's here in Manhattan to get Tony and Co (service dept) up to speed on the new tormat-less models due out that fall.
I had no real reason to be there, but was invited so I went. Later-on I had time to talk to their rep (Ed Blankbecker ?) about the tormat system they were now abandoning. He said that women were the best assemblers due to their training in sewing and knitting and that their hands were better suited for intricate work like this. This was at the height of the women's lib movement -so he was probably talking about older females.
In Feb '92 when i first opened and repaired a tormat i had newfound respect for those workers. Given how these are assembled I don't think even today's pick-place machines could build one. I hope those workers were absorbed into other areas of the company...and not just "shown the door" after the changeover.
Rob
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Post by bidnadir on Sept 13, 2017 1:58:34 GMT
Hey Guys, really appreciate all the help, as without your assistance I wouldn't know exactly where the trouble is. If I get a good working tormat, I just may attempt the 'repair' to this one as a rainy day project, prior to giving it the heave-ho. Great last couple of comments too. Very entertaining  ! Absolutely amazing that anybody (even talented ladies) could fabricate these things. Amazing intricate work! I'll keep you apprised, and thanks again ! Charles |
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Post by Ron Rich on Sept 13, 2017 2:47:14 GMT
Hi Rob
I knew Ed-- yep-that's his last name-- I think you may be wrong on that year--the SMC's were a huge secrete in 77 -- so much so, they were not designed yet-- Ed may have known about them (?), but he was always in "marketing"=--
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Post by bidnadir on Sept 17, 2017 18:27:19 GMT
Ron & Rob,
Just wanted to provide you both with the final update on this. As it turns out, the story has a happy ending. I called John Robertson at John's Jukes (https://www.flippers.com) to enquire whether or not he had a 160TM1 Tormat to replace the faulty unit in my AY160. John was interested in hearing about the problem, and after explaining all of the testing and process we used to isolate the fault within the Tormat, he suggested I bring the unit into his shop, opened up, so he could have a look. Well amazingly after about five minutes of checking the unit out on his bench, using a dental pick and high magnification, he found the break. I'd been looking for about four days on my kitchen table and couldn't see it, but he found the issue amazingly quick! Although the break was now evident, it was in a very difficult spot to repair, but again John, with some deft skilled manipulation of the wires, was able to run a small jumper between the two breaks and solder it all back together. I brought the unit home, installed it and it works perfectly !! John is an amazing technician, and I can't thank him enough !!
I also can't thank you guys enough either. Really appreciate all the efforts and patience explaining what to test and how trace the issue. With your help we had it within a cm of where the break was, I just wasn't able to see it. Thanks Again Guys !!
Charles West
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Post by Ron Rich on Sept 17, 2017 20:16:12 GMT
Hi Charles,
Great--John ain't such a great tech, he just had a better magnifier then you had ! ( You do not want to swell his head up--!) lol-
Glad it was found! Ron Rich
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Post by flippers on Sept 17, 2017 20:56:23 GMT
Hi Charles, Great--John ain't such a great tech, he just had a better magnifier then you had ! ( You do not want to swell his head up--!) lol- Glad it was found! Ron Rich Ah, a bit too late Ron. I have to get a bigger helmet now for riding my motorcycle... It was a fairly easy repair. The insulation on the magnet wire melted out of the way when heated with a temp controlled iron. Then I hsed some wire-wrap wire to join the broken ends, tested for continuity, then secured in place with a drop or two of hotmelt glue. I will post photos on flippers Tormat page soon so others can see how it is done. John :-#)# |
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! Absolutely amazing that anybody (even talented ladies) could fabricate these things. Amazing intricate work!