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Post by viperz on Mar 23, 2021 13:31:25 GMT
Ron, the contacts are cleaned, make good contacts when closed (checked with meter), and fully open when opened. What else should there be related to contacts?
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Post by Ron Rich on Mar 23, 2021 13:35:23 GMT
If you checked them with the correct type, meter--they ARE OK ! Ron Rich
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Post by viperz on Mar 23, 2021 13:50:46 GMT
I have a calibrated Fluke 87V, it usually does its job. I will have to trace voltages I guess to see why timing relay 2 in junction box is not picking, but I can't get to that relay - I only have maybe 8 inches between junction box bottom and the ground in my shop  It would be so much nicer if there was a schematic showing circuit that picks that relay rather than 30 step by step diagrams, which I only half understand at this point. |
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Post by Ron Rich on Mar 23, 2021 13:56:13 GMT
Eugen,
Your "Fluke", if "digital" is not a reliable contact checker--read the sticky ! Ron Rich
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Post by jukenorman on Mar 23, 2021 14:34:21 GMT
Hi Eugen,
Does your 1900 manual have a troubleshooting section? That can give some general help in problem solving. The letter and number latch switches not making properly can quite often be the cause of a selection not being executed although the pushbuttons latch on Wurlitzers.
Norman.
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Post by viperz on Mar 23, 2021 16:38:31 GMT
No, unfortunately not in 1900 manual. My 3010 manual has a troubleshooting section in the back I think...
I am slowly zeroing in onto the cause of the issue though... You are right that it is contact related somehow, so I will concentrate there. I removed the coin rejector/grinder, so I now have access to timing relay 1. If I manually trigger that relay, everything starts to work, my selection gets accepted, and it seems to even subtract credit. I am not sure how much I get per coin, but I eventually did run out of credit.
Another issue for another day is that it only picks 'A' selections independent of whether I pick A, B , C or D, but I am pretty sure I read about that issue and it is also contact related.
So first thing I need to figure out why my timing relay 1 is not triggering. I will go check coil resistance and if the voltage ever gets to that coil.
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Post by viperz on Mar 23, 2021 18:23:29 GMT
Seriously you win some you lose some... I cleaned the moving spider contacts again in coin register mechanism, and contacts behind buttons and letters. Now I can put credit in, solenoid behind buttons engages giving me credit. I push buttons, they latch, timing relay 1 engages... and I lose the credit completely and hear some bad mechanical sound from the selector assembly...
My understanding is that there is a ring there that is supposed to rotate to pick which bank of numbers to work with? Maybe I reinstalled it wrong when I was working on the selector?
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Post by jukenorman on Mar 23, 2021 19:10:26 GMT
I don't think there's a rotating ring in the 104 select, isn't it four (or is it three?) solenoids? Did I not let you have a copy of a 2500 series manual that includes troubleshooting? The 104 selection machines are all quite similar and the 2504 was the last 104 select Wurly.
Norman.
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Post by viperz on Mar 23, 2021 19:37:06 GMT
Hi Norman, the manual says the following: if the letter button A is pressed to make selection there is no circuit to the operating components shown in figure and the retracting spring will hold the rotating plate and rocker arm assembly in alignment with number pins "letter A" as determined by stop finger. If letter button B is pressed a circuit will energize stop magnet B and the driver solenoid to actuate stop arm B. The "rotating plate and rocker arm assembly" will therefore be actuated and indexed with 26 numbers B as determined by the stop finger and stop arm B.. (and so on for C and D).\
I remember pulling out the rotating plate assembly when cleaning (since I had to clean out whatever was spilled into the selector)... looking through the photos, I was hoping that I put it back right.
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Post by viperz on Mar 23, 2021 20:44:56 GMT
Rotating plate assembly moves back and forth fine... no blown fuses. Relay coil is ok...
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Post by jukenorman on Mar 23, 2021 20:45:42 GMT
Hi Eugen,
Yes I have just looked at the parts breakdown and I see that they call it a rotating plate. In the 200 selection machines there is a motor that drives this plate but in the 104 selections what you have is a solenoid (driver solenoid) that pulls the rotating plate. There is B and C stopping solenoid and A and D are at the extremities of the solenoid driver - so three solenoids determine positions A, B, C or D. There's a parts assembley drawing of the 2504 in the 2500 series manual.
Norman.
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Post by viperz on Mar 23, 2021 21:38:28 GMT
Goddamn contacts. I keep cleaning contacts in the coin register, and it is coming alive. Sometimes it won't do anything, just reset buttons, but most os the time, it actually picks (always) correct slot.
Oh, I also managed to stuff a sharp flat screwdriver between spring rungs at two different spots, starting from top rung working down, and injecting car synthetic oil in the slots. After a few cycles, the mech cycles like it is on butter.
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Post by viperz on Mar 23, 2021 23:29:07 GMT
I guess, back to the amp I go. Right now the volume is low and distorted, especially as I turn it up (it does respond to volume control changes). I have never diagnosed dynamic cart + oscillator, so I am not sure how to check if the cartridge/needle are ok rather than the rest of the amp. I can remove two capacitors to separate cartridge oscillator circuit from first VA amp and inject CD signal there. I will reclean all tube sockets, volume, bass and treble controls and fader switch too... Maybe that's the first thing that I should do? Short video: photos.app.goo.gl/WVcKu6SADVJ6zit3A |
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Post by jukenorman on Mar 24, 2021 10:45:00 GMT
Eugen, maybe you should give a summary of what work you have already done to the amplifier?
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Post by viperz on Mar 24, 2021 14:25:52 GMT
Hi Norman, all electrolytic capacitors replaced - that was the main repair. Blown R69A replaced with higher wattage resistor (as it was undersized); R69B looks to have been factory replaced with higher wattage resistor. Replaced a couple of 'tired' film caps on the PCB. Checked power supply voltages after the repair. Right now the amp clearly responds to volume control changes...
I cleaned all pots and switches, but I just found that I seemed to have forgotten to clean the fader switch through which all signal is going - it was filthy black. Just re-cleaned volume, bass and treble pots. Will also clean all sockets again. Then try again in the system. If this simple stuff won't help, then I will dig deeper with troubleshooting.
I also checked resistance between +/- on the shielded cable that comes off the cartridge, and got 3.1 Ohm, which is pretty much perfect for the dynamic cartridge coil + 3 feet of wire.
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It would be so much nicer if there was a schematic showing circuit that picks that relay rather than 30 step by step diagrams, which I only half understand at this point.