|
|
Post by Keith Gorham on Feb 11, 2021 21:42:07 GMT
Jukebox is new to me. First problem was the jukebox would do nothing. Found the mech frozen up.
Took apart cleaned and lubed and the box starts to work, but after placement of the record,
the unit will play, but the gripper motor still trys to move. After the record completes the unit will not
remove the record. If I press the red button on the logic board, the motor stops and upon completion
the record will be removed and placed back into the correct slot. I have the service manual
and diagrams. It seems the problem is in the mech power board, but I cannot find one for sale.
Is there someone that can help me troubleshoot to find the failed part on the board so that I can
fix it.
|
|
|
|
Post by jukenorman on Feb 12, 2021 10:07:55 GMT
Hi Keith,
"after placement of the record, the unit will play, but the gripper motor still tries to move" - that should not be happening! Have you checked that cam switch #3 is operating OK? Cam switch #3 should energise latch relay K301 - is that happening? A contact of K301 changing over is what stops the transfer motor. So some fairly basic things there for you to check.
Norman.
|
|
|
|
Post by Keith Gorham on Feb 12, 2021 11:27:03 GMT
Thanks for the info,
I have the motor removed and I am turning the device manually.
When the mech hits the end, there is a light on the logic board that lights up.
If I turn the mech back a little that light turns off, and the music stops. If I rotate it forward, the music starts and the light turns on.
That tells me that the microswitch is working.
I tested the contacts on the relay and they appear good, do you know the best method to check if the relay is being energized?
Thanks for the help!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Ron Rich on Feb 12, 2021 13:55:56 GMT
Hi Keith,
Your method of testing the switch is suspect-- see the FAQ's section sticky on testing switches. Ron Rich
|
|
|
|
Post by jukenorman on Feb 12, 2021 14:44:26 GMT
Hi Keith,
It tells you that the switch is doing something, certainly - can you not hear the relay clicking in and out as you operate the cam?
Norman.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ron Rich on Feb 12, 2021 14:50:01 GMT
Hi Norman,
True-- but it does not verify if it does "something" at the correct timing, consistently, nor does it prove the switch makes "well enough" to carry all of the current, it should--only enough to light an LED, may not be enough to do what needs to be done--very common problem with switches of all types ! Ron Rich
|
|
|
|
Post by jukenorman on Feb 12, 2021 15:16:33 GMT
Yes Ron,
I agree with you! The switch is also a changeover and the NO and NC both have actions. The reported problem was that the transfer motor is not stopping when it should and my thinking was that if the relay is clicking when he operates the cam, then the relay is almost certainly the issue (since a relay contact controls the motor). If the relay is not clicking, then the issue is either the switch or the relay coil is open. And the switch doing "something" didn't mean it's doing "everything"! I just didn't want him to get bogged down on a switch that may well be OK.
Norman.
|
|
|
|
Post by Keith Gorham on Feb 12, 2021 21:40:39 GMT
Update, I think I have a bad latch relay. When micro 3 is flipped I get 32 volts at the relay post #3 but the relay does not do anything. If I manually activate the relay the motor stops. Thanks!
Edit, getting 18 volts when motor running and 24 volts after I press the red button that stops the motor.
|
|
|
|
Post by Keith Gorham on Feb 12, 2021 22:08:42 GMT
Well any tips on finding an relay. An google search of T362 found nothing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ron Rich on Feb 12, 2021 22:31:06 GMT
Keith,
Did you remove at least one of the coil wires and measure the impeadence of the coil-- and what type meter are you using to see "32 volts" ? What type relay is this, and who made it ? Did you READ our FAQ's section, on (used) parts suppliers ? Ron Rich
|
|
|
|
Post by Keith Gorham on Feb 12, 2021 23:06:05 GMT
Well an update, it appears the latching relay is working by bench testing it. If I "latch" it in the other position then place it in the jukebox, the gripper motor will stop. I am going to have to look at sequence 14 the step that latches the relay in the other position.
|
|
|
|
Post by jukenorman on Feb 13, 2021 10:31:23 GMT
Hi Keith, I've pulled out the proper drawing (as opposed to looking at a murky pdf) and of course this is one of these dual coil relays. It could simply be a poor connection at the reset coil - what voltage are you reading at pin 2? Alternatively, maybe something is leaky on the latch coil circuit holding it in electrically - are you seeing any voltage at pin 1? This is at the point where the reset coil should energise (ie your problem position). Another thing, you said you manually flipped the relay - does it flip easily or does it show some resistance? The latch coil side comes in when the magazine motor stops and the transfer motor starts. You're there 99%, it's just a case of nailing the gremlin!
Edit - I've had another thought. There's a capacitor and resistor in the ground return side of the relay (a snubber circuit?). I was assuming (always dangerous!) that these must be OK because the latch side is coming in and they are common to both sides. But of course if the relay is stuck on the latch side, it doesn't have to come in! So I strongly suspect that the resistor R309 has failed (although it may also just be a poor solder joint on the board). And if you're replacing the resistor, you may as well do the capacitor C301.
Norman. |
|
|
|
Post by Keith Gorham on Feb 13, 2021 22:11:23 GMT
Keith, Did you remove at least one of the coil wires and measure the impeadence of the coil-- and what type meter are you using to see "32 volts" ? What type relay is this, and who made it ? Did you READ our FAQ's section, on (used) parts suppliers ? Ron Rich The method I used to measure the voltage at first was a bad method. I was checking between the metal backing plate and one side of the relay.
Measuring the correct way between the two inputs of the coil / relay I get 18 volts while the motor is still running. After I press the red button that stops the motor I get about 24 volts.
Measuring the impeadence of the two coils I get 480 ohms on one and 495 on the other coil.
|
|
|
|
Post by jukenorman on Feb 13, 2021 22:29:27 GMT
I cannot identify the red button on the schematic - can you be more specific? And after you press this red button and you have 24V on the relay, does it pull in?
Norman.
|
|
|
|
Post by Keith Gorham on Feb 13, 2021 22:39:38 GMT
Hi Keith, I've pulled out the proper drawing (as opposed to looking at a murky pdf) and of course this is one of these dual coil relays. It could simply be a poor connection at the reset coil - what voltage are you reading at pin 2? Alternatively, maybe something is leaky on the latch coil circuit holding it in electrically - are you seeing any voltage at pin 1? This is at the point where the reset coil should energise (ie your problem position). Another thing, you said you manually flipped the relay - does it flip easily or does it show some resistance? The latch coil side comes in when the magazine motor stops and the transfer motor starts. You're there 99%, it's just a case of nailing the gremlin!
Edit - I've had another thought. There's a capacitor and resistor in the ground return side of the relay (a snubber circuit?). I was assuming (always dangerous!) that these must be OK because the latch side is coming in and they are common to both sides. But of course if the relay is stuck on the latch side, it doesn't have to come in! So I strongly suspect that the resistor R309 has failed (although it may also just be a poor solder joint on the board). And if you're replacing the resistor, you may as well do the capacitor C301.
Norman. At the point that the motor should be stopping but still running I get 20V at pin3 (gnd to Pin 2), and 20V at pin 1 (gnd to pin 4) After I press the red button and the motor stops the 2-3 voltage goes up to 25 volts, and the pin 1 to pin 4 goes to zero.
|
|
