Rock-Ola 459 just getting started.

[TCW]

Well I received the Carriage Housing, part number 48924 and now the intermittent energizing of the Play Relay has stopped.

I am back to the singular problem of when selecting song 103 the Write-In Carriage puts in play both 103 and 203. I need to see why the B switch is being called for with the A Switch as it shouldn't be.

[Ron Rich]

Yep--READ, our FAQ's section --Needles is listed there among others !  Ron Rich

[TCW]

I wanted to see if there was a short between the two back wires from Coils A & B in the Write-In Carriage Assembly. As it turns out yes and no. With and Ohms meter I discovered that there is about 66.2 ohms between the two black wires while isolated from the Selector Assembly.

I checked the same on the Read-Out coil wires and its shows 76.8 ohms between the two black wires while isolated from the Selector Assembly. I am assuming this leakage is coming through the coils being connected through the red wires of both coils and is normal. 

I made my way to the Selection Control Box. item 14) Part No. 47386 relay 2C-24 V.D.C. has an open coil. Anyone have a modern replacement Part Number? This uses a 27E125 Relay socket. I did contact www.needles4jukeboxes.com but no reply as of yet.

[Ron Rich]

Yea--but ?? The two "red wires" are tied to the same terminal post -- so, sure using an Ohm meter, will show a reading, of zero consequences, if measuring the two blacks! FYI "Ohm meter (resistance)" is not a good test of a coil. It can only be used to "compare" coils. The readings you get of the two coils show them to be "comparable" in my humble opinion. A coil needs to be properly measured with an impeadence meter. Ron Rich

[TCW]

Apr 3, 2021 0:06:57 GMT Ron Rich said:

Yea--but ?? The two "red wires" are tied to the same terminal post -- so, sure using an Ohm meter, will show a reading, of zero consequences, if measuring the two blacks! FYI "Ohm meter (resistance)" is not a good test of a coil. It can only be used to "compare" coils. The readings you get of the two coils show them to be "comparable" in my humble opinion. A coil needs to be properly measured with an impendence meter. Ron Rich

Thanks for the advice.



I made my way through this circuit to the Selection Control Box.

Item 14) Part No. 47386 relay 2C-24 V.D.C. has an open coil. Anyone have a modern replacement Part Number? This uses a 27E125 Relay socket. I did contact www.needles4jukeboxes.com but they had no stock on this item.

Additional Relay detail, Potter & Brumfield 10-E2282-1, 700 ohms, 24 V.D.C.

[Ron Rich]

Did you check with other suppliers-- ? VG has many RockOla parts by part # only -- Is this an "ice cube" (plug in) relay, or is it a guardian built relay ?Ron Rich

[TCW]

Apr 3, 2021 2:37:22 GMT Ron Rich said:

Did you check with other suppliers-- ? VG has many RockOla parts by part # only -- Is this an "ice cube" (plug in) relay, or is it a guardian built relay ?Ron Rich

Yes,

Steve at VG suggested Rick Murray. I sent him an email.

I wish I had an old cross reference manual to use or even just the relay product code. Potter & Brumfield or who ever. 2PDT 24 VDC, 700 Ohm Coil. I am uncertain of the contact amp rating.

Something like a R10-E1X2-V700, part Number 1393766-9 might work with 5A/Single contact ratting. Or R10-E2Y4-V700  part Number 3-1393767-6 might work with 2A/Single contact ratting. www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/418/4/NG_DS_1308242_R10_0217-718770.pdf

[Ron Rich]

Look at NTE-- they have crossed many of the ice cube style-- I think pretty much any NTE 24 vdc plug in relay would work ? Ron Rich

[TCW]

I just ran across a POTTER BRUMFIELD R10-E1-W2-V700 DPDT 7.5 AMP 24VDC for $13.60 shipped. I'll give this a go.

[TCW]

Where is a good place to search for data sheets on retro components to find proper modern replacements at? As a for instance I have a suspect looking SCR (see picture) in my Rock-Ola 459 Selection Control Board. I would like to replace with a modern SCR part. How to convert?



insert code here
insert code here

[jukenorman]

47432 is the Rock-Ola part number. Because there's a chip in the case doesn't mean it's faulty. Jukebox Revival in Holland sell these.

Norman.

[TCW]

Thanks Jukenorman, good point.

I was told by a Mr. David Ressel that this is a standard triac for most jukeboxes of that era. This one is more robust and should never fail again. I don't care for answers like this. I want to know where to find the data sheet on a 47432 Rock-Ola part number so I can cross it to a modern part. Anyway here is the part he recommends.

Mouser #:511-BTA06-600BW
Mfr. #:BTA06-600BWRG
Mfr.:STMicroelectronics

www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/BTA06-600BWRG?qs=I%252BtR9uIPP5X9dlCLGfFnbA%3D%3D&mgh=1

www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/389/cd00000670-1795558.pdf

I was also told by Wayne Hamilton that you can still buy the C106 SCR.. just trim off the centre leg. I asked the same question on how the use of a C106 was determined. No answer.

www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/1921021.pdf

[TCW]

So the factory wiring diagram and what appears to be factory original wiring differ. This may be simply due to this being a 459 rather than the 460 version. Now that I have mapped this out I hope to discover why both "A Side" and "B Side" Hammers actuate. I took two 313 bulbs and put one of each in parallel to the A side coil and B side coil. The A side coil energized first as the K6-1 coil energized, followed by the B side coil after K6-1 coil released. So either the K6-1 coil doesn't stay energized long enough or the Pur-Wht wire from the credit unit stays on to long. If that is the case, would this be because ADR K5, located in the Credit Unit that when energized opens the normally closed contact for Pur-Wht wire isn't functioning in a timely manner (it does energize and actuate the contacts)? Anyone have any thoughts on this either way?

www.facebook.com/1085232333/videos/10224928489134549/

[TCW]

Sorry to say I'm stuck. I do not know how to solve this timing issue. Any guidance would be appreciated.

[jukenorman]

The K6 coil shouldn't be released until the ADR operates. What happens when you choose 2 as the first digit, do both hammer coils operate?

Norman.