Rock-Ola 460 very faint sound left side

[rockolarick]

Thanks Ron and Norman. I should have been more specific that I did look at the schematic and manual and it appears that micro switch #3 turns the mute on and off. So I took the wires off and manually touched them together at the right time while the gripper was operating and I still got the static sound. So it sounds like the switch is good.

In the manual on page 84, it says when the music ends and the gripper motor starts up micro switch 3 mutes the sound system. When I put a multi meter up through this process I am getting 33 vdcs through the orange-green wire, not the black-orange wire. Since the jukebox is supposed to be muted during this process, wouldn't the black-orange wire that, per the schematic, goes to the mute relay coil be the wire that has 33 vdcs? Oppositely, when the music is playing, 33 vdcs is going through the black-orange wire into the mute relay. I feel like this is backwards seeing what the schematics are showing.

If I am way off on this, since the switch is working, do you think it would be best to work my way to the amp? This one is stumping me.

[jukenorman]

Hi Rick,
I don't have a 460 manual. Up until now, I have used the 453/4 manual to deal with queries on the 459/60 which I believe to be functionally very similar. The 453/4 pdf manual that I have does not have a page 84.

Norman.

[rockolarick]

Shoot, I was referring to the pdf page number. In the manual it says page 56-57, sequence 20 Music Cycle Ends. Hope this helps.

[Ron Rich]

Does it show wire colors at the switch ? Are the wires CORRECTLY connected ? I have run into a few slide-on switches that have swapped the wires around all by them-selves ! Ron Rich

[rockolarick]

For this specific micro switch #3, it looks like the wires are correct according to page 65 of the manual. It shows the micro switch and which ports the wires go in.

Is it safe to say to mute the jukebox, current needs to be flowing to the mute relay? If that is the case, then something is backwards.

[Ron Rich]

I would assume, that no current, the relay will not be energized ? Ron Rich

[jukenorman]

Hi Rick,
You are confusing yourself - you will read -33V at the Org/Grn wire because the switch is in the other position (no circuit there). That you are not reading -33V at the Blk/Org wire is a good sign because it shows that the switch is made (micro switch 3 is switching ground). What about the mute relay itself or the contacts on the mute relay, have you looked at these?

Norman.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Norman,
I think you have "lost track" of this problem -- he stated that the mute was working at other points, which would indicate to me, that the relay was OK ? Ron Rich

[jukenorman]

Hi Ron,
Yes he did say that but the mute relay is held energised by micro switch 3 at all times except the play cycle - so something does not add up lol!

Norman.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Norman,
You are correct-- 2 & 2 are only adding up to 3 here ? That's why I said to "check", that switch-- I think--guess- that the switch is intermittent, and the motion of the cam may be causing the contact to open ? (been there, done that !) Ron Rich

[rockolarick]

I really appreciate you guys trying to help me figure this out. Just to summarize, I feel the mute relay does work because when it is in the home position, I can put my finger on the stylus and no noise comes out of the speakers. I feel like the micro switch #3 is working (could be proven wrong) because I took the wires off and manually connected them when during the gripper placing the record back and still heard static.

As far as the readings in black-orange wire, which leads to the mute relay, when the record is playing, I am getting -33vdcs, which from Norman says that means no circuit, which is good. But when the gripper is active, both placing down on turntable and placing back, the reading bounces around, but only gets to as high as 6 vcds. For these readings, I placed the red lead on the black-orange connection and the black lead on both the ground connection on the switch and also some other random ground. Not sure if this is an issue that I need to be seeing 33 vdcs during this process.

One thing I am noticing is that when the gripper grabbing and placing the record down, a little static is heard, but when it is done playing and gripper places back into magazine, it is very loud and lots of static can be heard. Maybe that is a clue? But again only getting under 6 vdcs during both processes.

[Ron Rich]

Rick,
Do you have the schematic ? Are there 2 or 3 wires on the Switch ? If 3, where do they all go ? On the mute relay-- two wires-- one to the DC supply and the other to ?? My guess is the mute relay is OK. My guess is the Micro Switch is intermittent. Check it's operation as stated in the FAQ's section. Direction/amount of motor noise is probably normal-- Ron Rich

[jukenorman]

Hi Rick & Ron,
I'm beginning to wonder whether the problems here may be wider. The -33V at the Blk/Org wire on the micro-switch has no relevance to mute circuit operation but that it's dropping to -6V when the gripper is operating may be pointing to either an issue with the power supply (electrolytic capacitor?) and/or that the gripper motor may require servicing.

Norman.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Norman, Rick,
I don't THINK, it's the motor-- Those motors are typically more "noisy" going in one direction. Is the mute relay visible-- if so, watch it-is it changing when the gripper is running ? Ron Rich

[rockolarick]

Ron, there are 3 ports for the switch, ground has 2 wires, one orange-grn and the other has 2 wires, both black-orange. One black-orange go to the mute relay and the other goes to the tone-arm switch, then on to the reverse relay coil. I pulled the cover off the mute relay and watched it close during the home position and while gripper motor was moving. When record was playing it was relaxed. Found continuity in a 4 legs. I feel the relay itself is working. Also Ron, I had a spare microswitch, so I tested that one and same behavior, so I feel the switch is working.

Norman, just to verify I was getting -31 vdcs while the record was playing, but then the numbers switched to a +6 during gripper motor movement. I tested the vdcs at the reverse relay coil during gripper moving and was getting a higher number. One at 44 vdcs, down to 10-15 vdcs, so same circuit, but a little higher.

Boy this one has me stumped.