Seeburg KD200 Scans Twice... With A Twist

[jukeboxmarty]

Looking at the photo, I do see what I think is an error.

The + side of capacitor C19 should go pin 6 of the 6SL7. It looks like it goes to ground.

Although that needs fixing, that probably isn't causing your issue; Something else is probably wrong.

[64b1t]

Yeah, I've double checked it, and now I'm on triple checking it. I can't find anything wrong so far...

photos.app.goo.gl/Ptv3rbg9GBhNoBc17

Looks like C19 is going the correct way.

[jukenorman]

If You can't find your error (assuming you have made an error?), then you maybe need to take a step back. Have you got all your DC voltages?

Norman.

[64b1t]

For now I've pulled the amp out and replaced it with a pre-amp + amp and external speaker combo which is working nicely for sound. Can add a switch for mute based on inputs while I try to debug the amp itself on the bench.

Another interesting question. It doesn't seem like the machine is picking the needle on or off a record when it plays, especially on the B side. I tried the adjustment procedure, but it did not seem to have an effect.

[64b1t]

Regarding the tonearm adjustments, this one turned out to be interesting. I figured something was wrong with the mechanism, so I used an endoscope to look around in the areas I couldn't physically see. Turns out there was a piece of a Picketing 345-03D needle stuck in there. How in the hell that made it into the mech is double perplexing as mine uses a redhead, so that must have been in there for at least 30 years...

[64b1t]

Less of an update, more of a barrage of questions about credits.

I could swear, when I was a kid, this jukebox played four selections for a quarter. It also has a sticker stating this, however the KD200 manual says it should play 3 selections per quarter. The jukebox itself is playing 3 selections per quarter, matching the manual.

I noticed the credit light was not illuminating, so I opened up the credit unit behind the keys, and found a number of concerning things.

1) The latch bar solenoid seems very very toasty, as if at some point in the past, it burned up. Operates fine now, but I definitely want to replace it. Would a 222 solenoid work?

2) The left most switch panel (credit switches) seemed screwed up. The white wire was connected to the top pole of terminal 3, orange was disconnected, and the brown one was connected to the bottom pole of terminal 3. The manual seems to state that the white wire should be on the lower pole of terminal 1, the orange on the lower pole of terminal 2, and the brown the same on terminal 3. I wired it like that, and the credit light came on when I hit the credit/quarter button. However...

3) The credit light is only illuminating for the first two of the three selections granted, so there's no visible indicator that a third selection could be made (nevermind that there should be four I think). Is this normal?

4) The 65ohm 10w ceramic resistors seem heavily corroded at the poles, but are testing good from the terminals. If they should be replaced, is there a good source for that? Didn't appear on a search of the usual suspects.

5) In general, I don't really understand how the pricing system works. Multiple looks through the manual don't really make it clear to me. Is there a simple way to set it to do four selections per quarter?



6) The "4 selections for a quarter" sign (middle) is not illuminating. On the back of the cover for my pricing unit, it says some configurations may not have that light on, but the part where it shows me the configurations has worn away and it doesn't seem to be in the manuals.. I guess this is basically a part 2 to the prior question. How do I get this light on? I know 26v is in the system as the credit light will come on and the latch bar solenoid works...

Sorry for the question bombardment...

[jukenorman]

Hi Liam,
So many questions and to answer them is going to require some time spent with the manual so I'm going to answer them in general terms.

Q5 should be covered in the sticky "how a jukebox works".

Q1 a Seeburg 222 latch solenoid should be fine. Your solenoid is probably looking "toasty" from being energised for a long period - possibly left sitting for an extended period with available credits and the solenoid is showing the effects of some excess heat.

Q3 what you are illuminating is probably "make any selection" with the final selection being "make 10c selection only", a different lamp. I am guessing that you have a dual pricing unit, in which case you need to let us know which one is fitted.

Q4 hard to say but if they test OK? 10W resistors do get hot (otherwise they wouldn't be 10W!) and that shows, maybe just surface rust though?

Q6 which pricing unit? "3 for a quarter" was a standard pricing which is what my 201 indicates but I have the DPU set to 6 for a quarter (although being in the UK, I don't actually use quarters!), and is the maximum that can be set - saves me emptying the cash bag so often!

Norman.

[64b1t]

Thanks for the general advice. It helped.

Q5) I perhaps phrased this one poorly. The mechanism of the system doesn't confuse me, it's explained in the manual. What I really meant to ask is 'how does one use all these single/ep wires to adjust the price settings of the machine?' The green cover that goes over the selector on my machine had images at one point to describe this, but they've worn away, and I can't seem to find another image, and they're not in my original KD200 manual.

Q1) I actually discovered a spare solenoid from a V200 in the back of my parts shelf, so that will probably work.

Q3) You're correct about a different lamp being illuminated, however it is not the middle lamp (make 10c selection) it's the bottom lamp (5c credit), maybe they've been swapped. In any case, I didn't notice, because somebody painted those two lamp windows orange so they don't emit any light.

As for the update, this is pretty cool. My fiance and I recently got a cricut cutting machine, so we made a 'make last selection' button out of vinyl and colored cellophane, and placed it in the bottom window, which will now illuminate for the last selection. Looks rather nice actually photos.app.goo.gl/5FjAKidG3TLnkhdA7

As of now, I think every component on this jukebox is working okay except for the amplifier. So if I can figure out what's going on with that, it'll be fully functional. For the moment, I've just got it hooked up to a standard stereo system so I can listen to the music, which is nice.

[64b1t]

Some updates to this post.

Q1) The solenoid did eventually catch on fire, so a little toasty is an understatement. The Seeburg 222 latch bar solenoid had to be modified to fit, but it works flawlessly now that it's installed.

Q3) Here's an interesting one. For a while, it was doing that. Hit credit button, SELECT, SELECT, MAKE 10C, and then needing to insert a new credit. However, now it's going to SELECT, SELECT, SELECT, and then the third (unlabeled) lamp comes on. I've changed nothing, and it's been like that for a few months now.

The last main question, what is there that could cause the jukebox to ruin 2050 tubes with some regularity? I've gone through two since the summer. It will begin by missing a selection every now and then, and then gradually get worse and worse, until I simply swap the 2050, and then it's good as new again. This is not a sustainable long term behavior, so I am curious what can be done here?

[jukenorman]

Hi Liam,
There is a capacitor in the pulse amp that usually requires to be replaced. I've had a look at the circuit, there are two but I can't remember which one off the top of my head (Edit - it's the 0.05uF)! What I'm thinking is that there might be deterioration in the pulse amp but it still works OK with new 2050s? I have a Seeburg which gets used regularly and the 2050 has been there forty years.  You might also try a new 12AX7.

Norman.