TCC1 from LPC480

[rwood]

Or motor capacitor?

[jukeboxmarty]

Could be the 4mf cap in the auto speed unit.

[rwood]

I disconnected the 4.0 uF and tested it; it’s 4.6uF. That seems ok, right?

The 1000uF/30v had leaked out some guts so I replaced that. No difference. I had also deoxited the molex plug.

The motor is making a buzzing electromechanical racket when I turn the unit on. I can’t hand turn it either. Can I jump the reject to ground to get it to put the record back?

I found the two section motor run cap, .75, 1.65 at Stamman in Germany but haven’t pulled the trigger. I haven’t removed or tested mine yet. Would that be the next step?

[jukenorman]

The auto speed capacitor usually requires replacement in these. Using a capacitor tester can often be problematic because the capacitor is not subjected to working voltages when tested.

The native speed on these is 33rpm so the motor should scan irrespective of the auto speed unit. It could be the motor capacitors but equally it could be that the motor requires servicing ie cleaning and oiling. And/or the mechanism requires oiling.

As an aside, I would have to add that I'm not a big fan of taking a sixty year old jukebox and powering it up in the hope that it operates. There is a danger of creating even more issues by doing so. Just saying!

Norman.

[rwood]

I got the two new motor run capacitors installed but no change in its behavior.
The motor ground to a halt as soon as it picked up a record and tried to play it. The motor appears to be frozen and cannot be hand turned.
Is there a tutorial on motor service and lube? or ideas on where I should turn?

Norm, I hear yeah. I’m going to give it my best shot and see if I can save it. Unless any of you knows of a Seeburg servicer in Central Virginia. I bought this from Harry “Hap” Nevins who repaired the box a few times into the 1990s.

[jukenorman]

There is a sticky above about Seeburg motors! Having said that, I'm not sure how you can say it's the motor unless you disconnect the flexible drive coupling. Personally I think it's much more likely to either be a sticky mechanism or a problem with the speed control unit which interestingly might lead us back to the big 4uF capacitor!

Norman.

[rwood]

Thanks for your reply, Norm.

You make an interesting point about the motor. I assume that there is a transition that occurs when the motor finishes scanning, and is now turning the record. This is the point where my unit stopped and wouldn’t proceed. I don’t know what to do to get it out of its locked up state.

I did take a look at the coupler and aside from having some oil on it it looks functional. Would loosening this enable anything positive to happen, if only for diagnostics?

I did read the motor sticky and I do have the correct oil. I added some to the two ports on the right side of the motor but haven’t added it anywhere else.

Part of the problem is that I don’t know what a working unit is SUPPOSED to do. I have a neighbor with an LPC-1; I should take a look at his. I believe that one works the same as my LPC480.

[jukenorman]

There's quite a bit to cover and the sticky "how a jukebox works" is well worth a visit. The native speed of your machine is 33rpm, that means when it's scanning the auto speed unit is not in circuit. When the selection is found, the clutch moves from scan to transfer and the record is mounted and the clutch moves to a neutral position leaving the turntable running. If a 45rpm record is mounted, then the auto speed comes into circuit. It's likely I think that your problem is probably lubrication (just guessing though!).

Looking at your neighbour's machine would definitely help although I don't think the LPC1 was dual speed (could be wrong though, I would need to check the manual). More to the point, might your neighbour be able to help a bit with your one if he has knowledge of a working Seeburg?

Norman.

[jukeboxmarty]

The LPC1 and the LPC480 are essentially identical except for the speaker configuration, and the LPC1 lacks the ability to add the optional 'Bonus Album' function.

Most components, including the mechanism, auto speed unit, amplifier, and control center are interchangeable.

[jukenorman]

Oh so the LPC1 is native 33rpm! In my (partial) defence, these native 33rpm machines are quite rare in the UK (unless recent imports). Back in the day, because the gears had to be changed for 50Hz, the original 33rpm 60Hz gears were exchanged for 45rpm 50Hz gears, no auto speed units were fitted and they operated purely at 45rpm.

Norman.

[jukeboxmarty]

In the USA, there is currently no shortage of LPC machines. They come up for sale often, and they do not command a very high price.

The natively geared 33 1/3 RPM system does not work well. Because of the auto speed arrangement, the machine is susceptible to SLOW starting 45rpm speeds, especially when cold (under 50 to 60 degrees Fahrenheit). Sometimes it takes a minimum of 3 or 4 songs before the affected machines play correctly. The motors just don't seem to have enough 'oomph' due to the conversion of the line frequency.

To minimize the issue, the motor drive parts must be extremely clean and well lubricated. Although this helps the situation, many machines never overcome the slow start issue. The only recourse is to change the gears to a 45rpm gear set, which is labor intensive and not very cost effective.

My understanding is that the Bodine engineers assured Seeburg that their motor's would work at the modified frequency. They re-designed the motor (KCI42-A1) due to design issues, but the revised motors don't overcome the issue either. I've experimented with different motors; interestingly older Emerson motors seem to perform better... but still not acceptable in cooler climates.

The LPC series is an over complicated attempt to embrace the (then) new 7" 'Little LP' Albums. Besides needing to switch between 33rpm and 45rpm... They modified the mechanism so the 'B' side will play directly after the 'A" side to accommodate 'Album Buys'. They modified the coin system to accommodate dual pricing (the operators would not want to sell LP's that played 3 or 4 songs without an increase in pricing). And they implemented a complex (optional) system of promoting 'Bonus Buys' (on the LPC480).

At the end of the day, 33 1/3 Little LP's never caught on with the operators, and the concept eventually died... and all that engineering went to waste!

[rwood]

Thanks for the history and context. It was all about the income.

I have had an improvement, thanks to the neighbor suggestion. i got some good advice from a kind fellow in Williamsbug to focus on the connectivity items. Relay points, molex connectors and pins, speed control rheostat. Well, SOMETHING new got through and the loaded record got rejected immediately, and put away. The carriage then scans but does bot pick up.

I’ve been advised to clean the read-out contacts on the mechanism. I’m off to look for a sticky on that.

[rwood]

I’ve been searching for a few days but haven’t found anything to help me get started to even locate the read out contacts let alone cleaning them. I’ve seen detailed threads like Ron’s “frog” sticky but nothing on where they are located, whether or not I should remove the track and the mechanism from the ‘box, and work on it outside if it, or remove the back panel to access it.

I have the factory service manual.

Can someone point me in the right direction to get me started with this job? Thanks

[jukenorman]

Ron's sticky on read-out contacts is above. You could also go back to the bettery test - not that I'm actually dissuading you from cleaning!

Norman.

[rwood]

Hi all, I’m back with some progress and a report on what its doing now.

When I make a selection the mechanism goes and gets the right record, loads it onto the turntable. Just as the needle is about to play, however, the Reject kicks in and it puts the record away, continues down the track to see if anything else was selected.

Any ideas on what I should he looking at now?

Thanks.