VL200 Stepper issue

[prime]

The strange thing is when i was having issues with the stepper and the transfer switch i was getting the same response on both the app and the wallbox. I just wonder if the wall box sends a stronger pulse then the app. pete

[jukeboxmarty]

No, the wallbox just sends grounding pulses.

This seems to be a distinctly different issue than what you first reported.

[prime]

Thanks for your help and knowledge, I think i will have to live with the wall box miss selecting and just use the app in most cases. pete

[jukenorman]

I'm somewhat confused here! I think we can safely say that if the stepper works from the VG app., then the stepper is functional (assuming the original problem has been rectified). So the issue is the wallbox. The way to check the wallbox is to set the selection VO and make a rotation of the wiper - you should get a pulse from every rivet. If you set UO, you lose the pulse from the first rivet and if you set U9, you lose the pulse from the first and last rivet etc etc. Connect your lamp so that the circuit is via the output.

If you've got a 3WA, you may as well have it working!


Norman.

[prime]

OK with the light tester and using your info i get what you have described when pressing V0 etc, but i notice the light is not quite as bright on some of the contacts, I decided to re do using the multimeter to give you an idea in numbers on how the resistance changes from number and letter. I connected one lead to the blue(signal) and one lead to the Orange(ground) i selected V0 this is my findings while spinning the wiper arm. V62,U58,T57,S56,R38,Q38,P34,N34,M32,L29,K29,J28,H28,G28,F28,E27,D27,C11,B5,A0,-0 1-0,2-0,3-2,4-2,5-2,6-2,7-3,8-4,9-24,0-62 Is that normal that resistance changes the way it does on my findings? I also get the same range in continuity using the analog meter, just harder the see the exact numbers but you definitely see in the letters the continuity gets better as you go from V to A   

[jukenorman]

More cleaning required! Did you clean the button bank switches? There are normally closed contacts on the switches that are likely to be the problem. So clean the switches (I'm assuming you've done the rivets) and then do the test the other way round - start with the A and work up. When the light glows dim, there is a problem with the closed contact of that switch. There could of course be a problem with any of the lower switches but since you're working your way up, they should be OK. Continuity gets better from V to A because there are fewer normally closed contacts to cause a problem.

Norman.

[prime]

So far i have cleaned the switches by removing the buttons, removing the plastic light diffuser, removing the screws that hold the banks in, this way they drop down abit and the top and bottom plate, then i spray with degreaser, then let sit a few minutes, then spray with warm distilled water. Is there something else i can do? pete

[jukenorman]

Are you exercising the switches as you are cleaning - you need to deal with the normally closed contacts that are sitting in the closed position. We all have our own ways of doing this - I only use an emulsifying degreaser if the switches are particularly bad - like black with oily, greasy residue. I would wash off the degreaser with a detergent and then wash off the detergent with water. I wouldn't think there would be any need to use any more degreaser and probably distilled water is a bit OTT. I use the detergent that's used to clean office toilets, it comes concentrated and you water it down.

Norman.

[prime]

I have noticed something that may be of help, with the box off the wall and disconnected from the stepper, using the light tester. when selecting V0 i only get the light to come on A-B-c letters and 1-9 on numbers.

[jukenorman]

Well you know what that means, the D normally closed switch is dodgy - but there also could be others. I'm not sure about the 0, I would need to check the diagram as to how that last number button is wired but probably a normally open switch issue.

Norman.

[prime]

Is it a big deal to pull the switches out from the wired end to get access to all of the contacts, or will the wires be too short or break off?  

[jukenorman]

It's not simple. There is a you tube video on stripping down a 3WA that you could refer to. I didn't watch it, just flicked through it in a few seconds - but don't do what he's doing with the steel wool!

Norman.

[prime]

Hi Norman, i am very sure there is no loose wires and the switches on the selector are very clean and make good contact. Ive noticed something that may shed some light or just adds to the mystery. When i use the wall box ,and i try 3 or more songs ,most songs are either one prior to my selection or play two , after the last has played the carriage will not stop after two scans as per normal, i thought it was the switch to the right and under the carriage rack, not so I have found the switch that is by itself that powers the carriage becomes magnetized, if i just lightly touch the plate it releases and the carriage stops, its like the coil is still getting a little power. If i play more than 4 songs with the app the carriage always scans twice and stops as it should. I have tried it 3 times with the same result. Im adding something here, maybe because this is low voltage things work differently, i notice there is continuity between the green 30 volt line and the Orange ground, this seems strange to me, also if i probe the green power line i get continuity at all ground connections. Is this normal for the box?  pete 

[jukenorman]

Hi Pete,
I'm not sure that I can help you much more. The wallbox plays a very peripheral role in the operation of the jukebox - in essence, all it does is send pulses (two pulse trains with a short gap between each). If you were so inclined, you could replace the wallbox with a morse code tapper, it's that basic!

We have been making an assumption - and I think it's a reasonable assumption - that because the VG app successfully drives the stepper, that the stepper is good. If you are convinced that you have fully serviced the wallbox, then disconnect the VG amp and try the wallbox. If the wallbox now selects OK, then you have a problem of interference between the wallbox and the VG amp. and you will have to take that up with Victory Glass.


Norman.

[prime]

I have already tried that, just in case there was an issue, no change. Is it the transfer relay or the timing relays that get and transfer the signal from the wall box? i also wonder if the signal is weaker from the wall box than the new VG amp and if it affects the switches. And I guess the fact that the 30 vlt and ground having continuity is normal. Thanks for helping i have learned a lot about the working of the wall box and the stepper.