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Post by jukenorman on Aug 5, 2024 15:08:14 GMT
Now that you have two of them, hopefully you will be able to resolve any outstanding issues by comparing one to the other! With regard to the damaged plastic, it might not be overly expensive to have a vinyl graphic made?
Norman.
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Post by sh0rtlife on Aug 7, 2024 19:20:58 GMT
Now that you have two of them, hopefully you will be able to resolve any outstanding issues by comparing one to the other! With regard to the damaged plastic, it might not be overly expensive to have a vinyl graphic made? Norman. i wish LOL 1 side..maybe..the other side got CHUNKED hard..you could pass D-cell batterys thru it with the door shut!!!..i wager you might be able to stuff a PC mouse thru it..its that big..someone had drilled out and removed the pins that hold the fall supports and re-attached them poorly..and by the wear many..MANY decades ago, and leaving an exposed bolt instead of something smooth crasheed the sides of the cabinet...ive re-built that with a button head locked down with a nut to the cab, then the support then another nut..its not "ideal, but it wont crash and its a far cry better and safer than it was
the first HUGE glaring issue is while YES its a 3700....its a "fully loaded" 3700 so there is ALOT of electrical thats flat out different(bonus its got remote volume/mute but i think its wired wrong)....for example that "contact" that was keeping the "high milage" unit from triggering a play..well it simply does not exist on it......and thats just the start of the dissimilarity
the big fat issue ive run into tho is the other machine has a blown cap..disintegrated unreadable exploded....so i have ZERO refferance as to what it is, the crumpled up mess of shrinkwrap that was its shell "looked" like it read 24v 100uf, but i cant be certain due to its crushed state..i tried to straighten it out to read it and took a guess...only to blow the replacement..mind you i bought a couple to test, replaced the triacs for good measure, blew the second one but SLOWLY over the course of minuets not instantly.....on a SERIOUS gamble..i put my "strip down" model control unit in, with my fingers on the cap...it got warm and i unplugged everything and let it cool, plugging everything back in 1 by 1 it got warm and luke warm till i plugged in the SEL switch and it heated up, so i know the issue is in the selection panel..be it switches or something else
what ive learned as far as the machines go, is that while they "look" the same, they partialy are, but theres significant wiring changes on the select switch assy and the control unit...and its drastic enough that things are extra or missing with no inbetween....extra pins for the BO/AC wiring for example the "freeplay" expectation of these machines is jump 2,6,7,8..7 and 8 only exist on upgraded models not the base units
cabinet, amp, bo/ac, transformers, power supply and table/changer/record assy is all the same tho
i will toss some pics up later , it is a VERY clean rig, aside from being BADLY taken care of..theres even a wurlitzer pink slip of repairs stuck to the interior back wall
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Post by sh0rtlife on Aug 7, 2024 19:32:13 GMT
back to the "high mileage" first unit
over the past week knowing ive got a transmission issue(the whole takeout arm not coming down due to the roller bearing in the cam gear) and NOT wanting to dissasemble it just yet..i went chasing other issues, pulled the acumulator out to clean and test continuity of EVERY contact EVERY wire....why? because ive got an intermitent acumulator spins and pops up no pins
however everything checked out continuitied out and i re-tensioned the copper brushes? fingers? contacts?, not sure what you guys would call them..to me they are shoes or brushes as they slide like slot car shoes do....everything checked out tho as a fully functional problem free unit
on re-install selections A 1-9 all work, B1 works everything else is a spin and stop with nothing popped up, i used to have intermitent b, c and D with everything passed D5 as a spin but no pin...suspecting its got to be a selection switch issue?
swapped in the entire table assy from the loaded model and i get the same thing EXCEPT it doesnt stop spinning when no pin..i know thats in the manual but ive not looked into that yet as the selctions are the same..so again selector switch issues?>
if anyone knows what the capacitor in the control box that jumps from the 12v 1.2a breaker to the freeplay switch is supposed to be on a "loaded" 3700 that would be great..it was a MUCH bigger unit that the one found in the strip down model 3700 but thats all i know
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Post by sh0rtlife on Aug 7, 2024 21:15:56 GMT
minor update on the loaded model, found the culprit of what was blowing the caps, seems a tab from one of the selector switches was wedged up against the assy bracket
still not sure what cap should be in there tho
on a side note, plugging in the bo/ac OR jumping 2,6,7,8 for a freeplay trips the 12v breaker...jumping 2,6 and manualy holding down the latch solinoid relay allows it to do everything as intended
what are the odds both machines would have credit issues LOL..just not sure whats causing this one
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Post by jukenorman on Aug 8, 2024 8:30:18 GMT
The best advice that I can offer you is to get a good quality service manual from a reputable seller in your country (Victory Glass for example). The pdf copies that are available are only good up to a point because generally (although not always) the quality of the schematics is poor. Skimping on the service manual is the worst mistake people make - in my opinion!
Norman.
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Post by sh0rtlife on Aug 8, 2024 17:31:47 GMT
The best advice that I can offer you is to get a good quality service manual from a reputable seller in your country (Victory Glass for example). The pdf copies that are available are only good up to a point because generally (although not always) the quality of the schematics is poor. Skimping on the service manual is the worst mistake people make - in my opinion! Norman. totaly agreed, at this point ive got multiple copys including th ones given to me, 1 with the new machine a couple online some better than others, and ive been able to enlarge the schematics and print them repeatedly as i trace and color wires im focused on..which is great...but they are seriously lacking ....id still kill for the order of operation the manuals i have refer to..but dont have a page for..which will be different from a strip down and a full load..and is deffinatly 3700/3800 specific as this point im not sure i even want a re-print...lesson learned repops suck...ill go the victory route "IF" and only if i cant find an original..going to scour Ebay and see if i can find an original...just like i do with all my car projects, ive got factory manuals all the way back to the 20s
the question tho is..will the manuals cover both a hopped up version and a strip down version?....from what ive seen of the pdf's is they seem to be more focused on the loaded ones...which is why that contact switch was so overlooked on the strip down model
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Post by jukenorman on Aug 9, 2024 14:42:36 GMT
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Post by sh0rtlife on Aug 9, 2024 17:30:49 GMT
actualy id been chasing my tail so long id forgotten about it, time to copy everything 3700/3800 related and print it all up..and maybe some of the earlier stuff too...thanks for the re-link!!!!!! |
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Post by sh0rtlife on Aug 9, 2024 17:34:24 GMT
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Post by sh0rtlife on Aug 9, 2024 17:37:02 GMT
here is something i cam across while doing the triac's on the new rig, that has me a bit puzzled FWIW NONE of the triacs were original..and someones been in there playing with that board before...same tracer cut and altered which i remember reading was a standard modification?..my high milage unit has the same thing done..the cut and jump by the R9....did the best i could to clean up all the rosin all over it that someone left, then swapped out new triacs, dunno what that grey cube is or what to make of it   |
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Post by sh0rtlife on Aug 9, 2024 17:48:51 GMT
so at the end of the week heres where i sit new rig: unknown credit issue unrelated to the BO/AC..it does NOT like being freeplay jumped..ive got caps on the way, figured id re-cap the same stuff i re-capped on the old rig and hope for the best old rig: transmission issue that im working out old rig: unknown selection issue A1-9(A0 does not pop up a pin) works nothing else pops a pin up on the accumulator(issue is NOT the acumulator)
made an attempt to run the old control board in the new rig and TR2 or TR4 got smoking hot on the triac board on attempting free play, i dont know if thats a wiring differance(which i suspect it is)
swapped the entire player unit from new rig into the old rig to rule out the selection issue and came up with the same selection issues...suspect selection keyboard
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Post by sh0rtlife on Aug 9, 2024 20:38:56 GMT
you jogged my memory on this
that mod was done on the "old" rig..and that switch was my freeplay problem
that mod has NOT been done to the "new" rig
thing is i dont see any "why it was done"...just a "heres how to do it" id LOVE to know the reasoning behind it...
but it looks like im going to probably need to do it on the new rig?
any ideas where id get the switch? i mean its not really a switch its a set of contacts
i also figure i should double check that it was done "right" on the old rig..as mucking with the selector switch wiring and that could cause all manner of selction problems
UPDATE
on the new rig i figured out the credit/blowing cap issue...and its got the wrong powersupply in it!!!!!!!
it came with a "spare" which is the original in a box..but is DEAD, the way they are wired is different but it "looks" like the transformers are the same?!?!?!?!?!...can anyone clue me in to if they are? right now im thinking hey..why not just swap the "wrong" powersupply transformer into the DEAD power supply, that would have it wired correctly ..assuming the "output" of the windings is the same winding per winding
one more update
i did some digging on the powersupply, and its worth noting that the amp worked with it, in fact most of the system worked with it on wiring inspection with both it(561) and the "dead" (554) all wiring EXCEPT 1 pink wire and how its ran thru the powersupply as well as 1 extra winding wire is all thats different, which probably explains why i could get the rig to mostly work..said pink wire runs DIRECTLY to the cap that was blowing, but in the power supply is ran thru an extra winding wire via 4 diodes..
hooked up the "old" 3700 powersupply to the "new" 3700 and bingo a working machine..aside from the fact the BO/AC seems to be stuck in freeplay somehow..without having a credit board in it, and R selection just spins the acumulator
sooo ive made some serious headway..and it finaly feels like a win!
now to either find, repair, or kitbash a powersupply and figure out the selector keybnoard issues on both rigs...and crack open the BO/AC and figure out the how/why its stuck in freeplay...i dont like the solinoid stuck "on"
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Post by jukenorman on Aug 10, 2024 13:47:55 GMT
If you look at the sticky post on making the BO/AC free play, you will see that a couple of outputs are linked and that the BO/AC unit itself is no longer required so can be left out of circuit. Also I'm fairly sure that the latch solenoid on these has a dropper resistor that comes into circuit after it's energised (but you can check the schematic) so consequently leaving it powered isn't usually a problem.
Norman.
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Post by sh0rtlife on Aug 10, 2024 16:24:37 GMT
If you look at the sticky post on making the BO/AC free play, you will see that a couple of outputs are linked and that the BO/AC unit itself is no longer required so can be left out of circuit. Also I'm fairly sure that the latch solenoid on these has a dropper resistor that comes into circuit after it's energised (but you can check the schematic) so consequently leaving it powered isn't usually a problem. Norman. yeah the 2/6/7/8 jump, tho in that sticky it should also be noted that a "strip down model" its just 2/6 as 7/8 doesnt exist
freeplay on my strip down machine i left the "out of adjustment" latch switch out of adjustment (the latch cant trip it) and ran a pair of wires off of it to the coin mech switches, i have 2/6 jumped but they do nothing without the latch switch tripped, so now you drop any coin into it that in turn trips the latch and fires the solenoid...its what i would call a "nostalgic" free play..bypasses the bo/ac, but yet has that "i dropped a coin" feel...
personaly i feel like the best freeplays would be based off the latch switch being triggered by pressing the coin release and having a switch on it with the 2/6/7/8 jumper in place..this way the solenoid isnt always stuck on
whats got me genuinly curious tho is why the bo/ac is just firing out a freeplay without any jumpers
i guess im a little weird but im not confident or comfortable leaving the latch solenoid firing 24/7/365
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Post by sh0rtlife on Aug 13, 2024 16:46:05 GMT
anyone who can point me to the schematic for the power supplys?
ive got
561 powers the amp and some other things, pops the freeplay/12v breaker cap
554 thats seemingly dead
554 working just fine
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