Seeburg M100C - Picking Up - No Motor Power

[arcadetechgw]

Good day,

Long time arcade game, pinball machine, sometimes Juke Box tech (and I fix expensive latte machines - go figure).

Just had a customer call with a Seeburg M100C - it's been modified.  The amp section is gone, and has been replaced with a MPA-45 from Radio Shack.

My problem is simple: 
I can coin up the machine. The SELECT light comes on.  I can select songs.

But nothing happens with the Select-O-Matic mechanism.

All 3 fuses have been checked, and all are good.

I have power to the unit, and all lamps and the pillister lights are on, the left (facing) is rotating, the right one I'll have to work on.  I have power at the service outlet.

I used my flex file and cleaned all the contacts in the Select-o-matic.  Then I checked contact pressure, and in one case, I had a contact which was mis-adjusted, so I corrected that with a contact adjusting tool.

And still no power.
The 2050 tube is missing from the Selection Receiver, which is what I think my problem is.

Can anyone confirm?

[arcadetechgw]

Well, the tube isn't it. That's only needed if Wallet units are in play, which they aren't.

Looks like I have to pull the main chassis and check power going to the motor from there.

This unit has been modified by someone, and no diagrams are provided, so I'm running blind and have to ring out or lamp out all circuits.

[jukeboxmarty]

Just because the amplifier has been replaced doesn't mean that the rest of the machine's functions are modified.

The Seeburg service manual should still provide valid information.

I'd get the service manual and familiarize myself with the sequence of operation.

[arcadetechgw]

Well, this is what I get picking up a project someone else worked on.

I took your advice, and read the forums. I saw a message which intrigued me – two switches under the rails.

I found them. The switch for the motor was OFF.

Everything works, but I believe the base of the cartridge is broken off, so it’s riding on the pins. The sockets for the cartridge pins are loose, so the cartridge angles so it doesn’t regularly reject.

My plan is to cut a block of plastic after drilling it for the pin holes, then drilling it for tiny flush screws, split it, and then install it. That will take the tension off the pin holes, so the cartridge will stay in place.

And look for a new cartridge.

Does anyone have a line on a good source for cartridges?

[arcadetechgw]

Update: I was able to extract the Pickering 345-03D cartridge, and then the cartridge base.

I cleaned the previous glue from the base and the cartridge, straightened the pins (they were bent by the cartridge pressure) and then glued the two back together again.

I'm waiting 24 hours for a full cure, and then I'll re-install it, and see if it can withstand the rigors.

From the "tells" on the cartridge, this had glue on the two long faces, and on the inside of the cartridge, which I duplicated.

It should be reinstalled by tomorrow morning. I'll let you know how it turned out. It will be good to have saved what is now an insanely expensive Pickering 345-03D Cartridge.

[wilitrun]

Welcome to the site.
You are in IL, I wonder who you work for- I also work in the coffee machine industry.
At one time recently there was a reproduction cartridge socket being reproduced for the late model tone arms, not sure if you have a retrofitted late tone-arm or an original. It might make for a more sound repair to replace the tone arm itself or the whole pickup assembly, as they're not impossible to find in the classifieds.
The fall coin-op show is of course coming up as well, I'd definitely suggest attending if you want to get into jukes more seriously as good vendors are still exhibiting.
Good luck

[arcadetechgw]

Thanks.

Today was one step forward, two steps back.

I reinstalled the glued and cured cartridge. It played fine. I was playing the A side, and it would not reject the record at the end of the track - it would pop the tone arm (scratch noise) out and replay the end. So I have to adjust the A side end of play switch.

I called 3 records.
C5
J10
F1

I don't know what was in the buffer, but it played
B1
C3
C5
F1
H9
K8

Hmmm. Not quite right. No wallettes. No outside inputs.

So I drop another quarter in the coin chute. I put in 3 entries.

None of them play.

Back to the drawing board. The Jones plug blades aren't very clean. I think I'll start there and De-Oxit them and see if I can resolve this.

Plus adjust the A side end of play switch in a little.

As to who I work for in Illinois on Latte machines, I run a side hustle called The Brew Doctor, and have around 10 customers. More call every day.

[wilitrun]

The pin-bank and frog would be a good place to turn your attention as dirty pins can cause selection issues and will need cleaning anyway if they haven't been tuned-up in awhile. Here's a YT video I found that explains this part of the mech very well.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUVq1bPPbRA
There's also a sticky from Ron Rich discussing selection/write-in, read-out issues that's worth a read.

[arcadetechgw]

Yep, I think I see where this could lead.

I selected 3 songs I knew for my test call. But if the Pin Bank didn't pop those pins, there is nothing to start the selector moving.

I'm thinking the best approach would be to test songs I know work.

A question: Does each call from the selector pull the solenoid on the pin bank, and then does THAT move the mechanical Hit Counter? If it does, I can Zero the Hit Counter, and then load a bunch of credits, and select each song in sequence and watch to see if the Hit Counter increments.

Thoughts? I'm starting to figure out how this monster works.

[dberman51]

I don't have a pin bank machine, but can't you observe the pin bank to see which pins if any are pulled after you make a selection?

-David

[arcadetechgw]

Good question. The honest answer is:
This is the first M100C (or M100 anything) I have taken on.
I had to go find the pin bank - it is on the back side bottom of the Select-o-matic.

I can't tell whether a pin is pulled yet. Can anyone school me on what that looks like?

Also, there are three bolts holding the floating deck down to the fixed deck. I think those are the travel stops and should be loose so the Select-o-Matic 100 "floats" on the springs and rubber bumpers. Can someone confirm while I pour through the manual again?

[dberman51]

Yes, the pin bank is in the same location as the Tormat on the later machines if you are familiar with those. Inspect the pin bank and the contact block ("frog") underneath and you should be able to figure out where the pin should be when pulled so the frog contacts it as it scans across. When the pin is pulled, a washer on the pin contacts a grounding bar which energizes the scan control solenoid under the rail, starting the mech scanning. That is not happening. The grounding washer on the pin may not be clean so cannot ground the grounding bar properly.

And the pop meter is not incremented by the electrical selector. There is only a single solenoid, attached to the mech. When the mech reaches the selected record location and detents, that energizes the solenoid and increments the pop meter dial for that location.

-David

[arcadetechgw]

Got it. I think I have sticky pins right now. I have determined with your help, they move front or back (depending on which side) so I should be able to (power off) exercise them and see which ones are sticky. If I can't free them up with a little movement, it's time to rebuild that Pin Bank, and I saw instructions on how to do that.

Hopefully, the cycling works.

For now, I selected records that were "known" working, and the juke box started up.

[arcadetechgw]

Question: Does anyone have any experience with corroded Jones Plugs causing a failure to pull a selection? I pulled the Jones plug apart, and the tin corrosion was pretty bad. I was thinking of hitting it with my flex file or regular file to take the corrosion layer off, or maybe scotch brite.

Anyone with experience who can speak to this?

[jukenorman]

In the overall scheme of things, the Jones plugs aren't usually the problem - pushbutton contacts, group relay contacts or just sticky pins are more likely. Only you can judge how bad the corrosion actually is but I would be very wary of attacking them with a file! You can easily test the mated plugs by passing some decent current through the contacts; I use an old pinball GI lamp and a 9V battery which is easy, quick and very visual.

Norman.