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Post by vipertblck on May 22, 2018 17:36:54 GMT
came across a brand new NOS redhead. ohms out at 1.83k. states it has "factory installed NOS mono needles". also found another redhead that's used but ohms out ok which has "7-mil diamond tipped mono/stereo needles". I know among the records I have, there's mono and stereo ones. different needles for different records? a "mono needle" can't be played on bother records?
again, sorry if some of these questions are dumb; i'm learning as I go...
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Post by robnyc on May 22, 2018 17:54:05 GMT
Rob, The "output" of the currently made "compatible" stylus, for the "red head"cart. and "Twin Stereo", cart. is very close to that of the OEM Pickerings--BUT they both are extremely critical about needle pressure--it MUST b 4 grams ! Yes--I cut down a lead fishing weight, or car wheel balance weight, to add to the top of the 345's (too lazy to dis-assemble the tone arm cradle !!) Ron Rich Ron, just to be clear, the "lower outputs" I'm talking about are: The mono offset "stereo compatible" styli. The original 345 stereo cart. Any cart using the generic yellow styli or the home phono styli with shroud removed to fit Seeburg carts. All of the above will have lower output than the mono redhead and spike styli. I made no mention of the T stereo cart. Rob |
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Post by Ron Rich on May 22, 2018 21:09:06 GMT
Rob,
I don't know if you are aware of it, but within the last year or so, a "new" company has been making replacement needles for both the red-head, and twin T Seeburgs. These needles, appear to me to put out just as much volume as did the OEM Pickerings-- There is now also a new supplier ( or perhaps the old supplier has learned how to make) a "correct replacement" needle for the Pickering Green needles Seeburg used. I have yet to try these but, but am tolt they are "great". Unfortunately they are yellow in color too--but they do have an identifying orange center, when viewed from the bottom. Ron
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Post by Ron Rich on May 22, 2018 21:20:22 GMT
Viper,
I HIGHLY doubt that anyone has a NOS mono Red-head for sale ! These were, as far as I know, last produced in 1957, and were NLA by 1963 ! "Mono" needles for these consisted of a straight shaft (think "nail") and a 1.0 mill sapphire, or diamond tip. If sapphire, it was mounted on a blue plastic base--diamond was yellow. The "compatible" mono/stereo needles, no mater which aftermarket-er made them are of a "L" shaped shank with a 0.7 mill tip. These will track on a stereo grooved record,without damaging it, but will NOT "play in stereo". This needle will allow you to play either the mono record with the wider groove, or the newer "stereo" records, without hurting them--if you have the correct 4 grams tone arm pressure. Ron Rich
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Post by robnyc on May 23, 2018 4:18:22 GMT
Rob, I don't know if you are aware of it, but within the last year or so, a "new" company has been making replacement needles for both the red-head, and twin T Seeburgs. These needles, appear to me to put out just as much volume as did the OEM Pickerings-- There is now also a new supplier ( or perhaps the old supplier has learned how to make) a "correct replacement" needle for the Pickering Green needles Seeburg used. I have yet to try these but, but am tolt they are "great". Unfortunately they are yellow in color too--but they do have an identifying orange center, when viewed from the bottom. Ron Ron, I am aware of that European co making the new versions. They've been around for about 3 years. While the mono spike version can have the same output as original (depending on its cantilever properties) the offset stereo compatible version will always have somewhat lower output due to looser magnetic coupling. There is no way around that. I didn't mention the first stereo cart (T stylus) because it was not important here. FWIW: the redhead was available via Pickering as late as 1989. They may have been NOS. I was surprised that they were still offered to dealers. Some resellers on Jukebox Collector and/or Always Jukin offered them at that time as well. I do recall there was something different about the plastic they were encased in -but they were still red. I had no interest in them. I probably should sell the originals I have. Rob |
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Post by vipertblck on May 23, 2018 11:22:22 GMT
just cuz it was brought up I adjusted my tonearm balance last night, it was way off. go to the end of the song on the record, or about 1" in from the record edge and it wanted to fall right back to the top (beginning). adjusted so it was "in balance" at the song end/1" in from edge. Next i'll adjust the needle pressure once I find a gram gauge.
anyway sounds like i'll start looking for a redhead. I understand this is a mono box. I've seen redheads on ebay with mono needles, and mono/stereo needles. I DO have some stereo records in his box. If I got a redhead with mono needles, would this do any damage to my stereo records??
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Post by Ron Rich on May 23, 2018 13:42:42 GMT
Viper,
RE-read the above postings--
Didja also check the counter balance spring ("trip switch pressure--") adjustment--It MUST be correct, prior to adjusting the counter balance.
Rob,
I did not ever get an offer of the red heads in 1989--I think they offered the "Twin Stereo Red heads", then ?? I was tolt, that the "clearish" mono' red heads were made in 1955 for the model "R", by someone much older then I--- ?? Didja know that Pickering also produced some mono, blue colored wedge shaped needles around that time ?
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Post by vipertblck on May 23, 2018 13:48:59 GMT
Viper, RE-read the above postings-- Didja also check the counter balance spring ("trip switch pressure--") adjustment--It MUST be correct, prior to adjusting the counter balance. Rob, I did not ever get an offer of the red heads in 1989--I think they offered the "Twin Stereo Red heads", then ?? I was tolt, that the "clearish" mono' red heads were made in 1955 for the model "R", by someone much older then I--- ?? Didja know that Pickering also produced some mono, blue colored wedge shaped needles around that time ? Sounds like I’ll need to search for a red head cartridge and get some mono/stereo needles for it to accommodate my record collection. Also Ron, nope I didn’t check the counter balance spring; went by the book and all it said prior to tone arm balance adjustment was to ensure there’s no binding in the assembly. I’ll go back through the book and search for adjusting and checking the counter balance spring as you suggested |
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Post by Ron Rich on May 23, 2018 13:58:29 GMT
Viper,
Somewhere in most of the Seeburg Service Manuals, it suggests that in ALL cases, any numbered adjustments must be followed in "order"--this is the case, in cradle adjustments ! Ron Rich
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Post by vipertblck on May 23, 2018 14:20:42 GMT
Viper, Somewhere in most of the Seeburg Service Manuals, it suggests that in ALL cases, any numbered adjustments must be followed in "order"--this is the case, in cradle adjustments ! Ron Rich I’ll dig in again tonight. The counter balance spring/trip pressure switch; does it basically just apply pressure to the tone arm in and outward? |
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Post by robnyc on May 23, 2018 14:34:21 GMT
Viper, RE-read the above postings-- Didja also check the counter balance spring ("trip switch pressure--") adjustment--It MUST be correct, prior to adjusting the counter balance. Rob, I did not ever get an offer of the red heads in 1989--I think they offered the "Twin Stereo Red heads", then ?? I was tolt, that the "clearish" mono' red heads were made in 1955 for the model "R", by someone much older then I--- ?? Didja know that Pickering also produced some mono, blue colored wedge shaped needles around that time ? Ron the mono types were called either Fluxvalve and/or T-Guard. A Rek-O-Kut table I have came with one of those. The cart was pretty bad -very "spitty" on sibilants. I probably still have it along with all the Shure M7's and other obsolete junk. Believe it or not, I read about the growing cult around this old crap in audiofool circles. People actually pay for old G.E. & Fairchild carts. Some audio guru in Asia has been proselytizing the "virtues" of rim drive turntables. Even radio stations got rid of those 40+ years ago. Then there are the guys who build power amps out of dozens of 12AU7's. This, I have personally seen..... Rob |
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Post by robnyc on May 23, 2018 14:44:17 GMT
"I’ll dig in again tonight. The counter balance spring/trip pressure switch; does it basically just apply pressure to the tone arm in and outward?"
The purpose of the bias spring on the trip whisker is to reduce the loading of the switch on the tonearm.
"anyway sounds like i'll start looking for a redhead. I understand this is a mono box. I've seen redheads on ebay with mono needles, and mono/stereo needles. I DO have some stereo records in his box. If I got a redhead with mono needles, would this do any damage to my stereo records??"
A straight mono spike styli will damage stereo records. It will also give the highest output.
The offset styli for the mono cart have lower output, but have the angular compliance to not damage stereo records. All of these ancient designs cause more wear than modern pickups that can track at lower weights. if you get the tracking down to no more than 4gm and have the arm free and balanced the damage will be lower and records will sound Ok longer. I do not recommend using high-value disks in these old machines.
RobNYC
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Post by Ron Rich on May 23, 2018 16:59:55 GMT
Rob,
"A fool and his money---" I saw some guy selling "used audio caps" on ePay awhile back--got good money (to me anyway), for junk that I throw away--Speaking of which--when I am waiting on someone, I peruse the ePay sales and laugh at some of the "descriptions" people write. Either they are "no-nuthings", or great lairs--some of them are truly imaginative, others just plain outrageous ! lol--- Ron Rich
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Post by vipertblck on Jun 1, 2018 21:38:46 GMT
got myself a redhead off ebay and gonna put it in today to see how it works. just to make sure, the books says needle pressure should be 7-8 grams; does this apply to the redhead still? also the "340 style" cartridges I have that were mentioned earlier in this thread; are those still correct at the same grams?
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Post by Ron Rich on Jun 1, 2018 21:56:55 GMT
Whut "Books", are you reading--does your book picture the red head? You need a copy of my Seeburg Mechanism Guide, in which I list all the OEM needles, and carts. Seeburg used, when. The "red-head" was introduced with the model "R". For some reason, people at that time replaced the perfectly good "black head", that Seeburg used in earlier models with the "red-head". Some how "the word" got out that they were a direct replacement-NOPE, just like ALL, the aftermarket cartridges introduced, "modifications" were needed to make them work correctly, one of which is needle pressure. Ron Rich
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