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Post by aa777rob on Jul 16, 2018 0:48:26 GMT
I'm trying to get my SC1 to work but with the iPod system hooked up it keeps triggering song #1/A1 only. Looking at the schematic the circuit coming off the long wiper arm should provide ground to the frame backward leading thru whichever chosen contact back thru J881 pin 10 when it makes contact thru pin 10 I would think. I put a meter on pin 10, on the connector mounted to the frame, and get a constant continuity to ground. I ran the wiper full cycle and it never breaks ground. Is that normal? I'm thinking not which is why its triggering the first song each time. Maybe. I'm just trying to make sense of it. I would think it should only make continuity when on the 2 contacts are selected and the wiper passed that contact. I may be wrong but I'm just trying to learn to troubleshoot this myself and understand its operation. I thought maybe it was getting ground thru the S885 relay from the opposite direction maybe if I had an adjustment off. Thanks! aa777rob
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 16, 2018 1:04:44 GMT
Rob,
Without the schematic, I can tell you the keyboard provides grounds to the rivets-- sounds as if an anti cheat switch is closed--
Ron Rich
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Post by robnyc on Jul 16, 2018 4:13:36 GMT
"Rob" the signal line on an SC is the Blue term to chassis (ground). That is screw 5 going L-R.
If you are getting continuous sig-ground there are several main causes:
1) Something foreign in the keyboard is shorting the signal bus to the keyboard frame. It can be a coin, loose screw, etc.
I disconnect the box, remove pages, coin mech and cash box. Turn the box at random angles and thump it on the back to shake loose whatever my be in there. This problem is less frequent in these later types (post 200's) because they lack a piece of spring metal that breaks of in the keyboard assembly, but other crud still can get in there.
2) Seeburg's goofy anti-cheat schemes. Viewed from the bottom you'll see a stack of contact blades which are operated by the motor cam.
They are:
Step-up/carry over (three blades)
Another carry over (two blades)
Audio control (speakers relay) Two blades.
Anti-cheat (two blades) These are potential troublemakers. If they are closed it puts a dead short on the signal line depending
the amount, or lack of credit established vs the group of records the customer is trying to trick the box into playing an album while paying only for a single. According to my Sept 1990 notes, this is an orange wire.
Connect your meter to chassis-Blue screw terminal. Set the wiper to someplace on the wafer that is not on a rivet (or put a slip of paper under the wiper). You should not have continuity. If you do, slip a card between the anti-cheat terminals and see if that opens the circuit. If circuit opens, remove the paper under the wiper and turn it enough to see if you have intermittent continuity. If so, slightly form the anti-cheat blades so they never touch.
Unfortunately, in seeburg's anti-cheating zeal, they also wire the keyboard signal into the f'ing credit unit. This can create other problems if that unit has been tampered with.
There is a way to wire the keyboard directly and bypass all that stuff, but it involves clipping wires and it is better if the above suggestions work instead.
RobNYC
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Post by aa777rob on Jul 16, 2018 11:58:49 GMT
Are you talking about the contacts below the Selector plate as seen looking up from the bottom? My book calls it "latch bar setting switch" 5 different contacts and it gets bumped once per cycle. 4 are open, 1 closed then the bump it swaps 4 closed 1 open momentarily. Or are you talking about something different? Ill check all that you and Rich wrote about. Thank you! There's just so much crammed into this unit, its overwhelming and intriguing both. I want to make sense of it all and see it all function again!
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Post by robnyc on Jul 16, 2018 12:54:06 GMT
"Are you talking about the contacts below the Selector plate...." -Yes.
BTW:On the step-up/carry over three blades, when the motor steps up in credited mode (keys will lock in) the center blade must be center and not touch either of the outer blades or the motor will start without waiting for keys to be pressed.
RobNYC
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Post by aa777rob on Jul 16, 2018 16:47:24 GMT
Mechanically it seems to function perfectly. It was smoking resistors last week so I've come s long way. Timing the wiper made a big difference. I'm not getting the 3rd light on top ever. Second one lights when the wiper stops at zero with the short wiper on the starting contact point. Its just that it plays the 1st song only not what I choose. I feel I'm pretty close its just finding the needle now. Aa777rob
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Post by aa777rob on Jul 16, 2018 19:43:43 GMT
I checked the BLU terminal and there's no continuity to ground when the wiper is in a dead spot. Aa777rob
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Post by robnyc on Jul 17, 2018 1:25:27 GMT
Alright, we come to one last test:
Remove power from the box. Connect you meter to the chassis and blue line. Manually turn the wiper and note if you see on--off at each rivet indicating that pulses are generated.
If that is the case, the problem is in the new device or the way it has been connected or programmed.
RobNYC
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 17, 2018 3:26:15 GMT
77 Rob,
OK--there should not be. Do you see the pulse at each rivet, as the motor runs, when credit is established ?
Have you oiled the motor ? Is it the correct speed ? If all's good, call Mr. Grumpy---Ron Rich
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Post by aa777rob on Jul 17, 2018 3:52:34 GMT
Interesting. I disconnected the iPod signal wire so as not to get any false reading. With nothing selected, no continuity on any of the number contacts. As the wiper gets to the last 2 that aren't assigned a number but the wiring diagram shows their on the same circuit with the letters, those 2 and all letter contacts have continuity to ground.
Its gotten tempermental with me this evening, the wiper has decided not to do a 360 when I put in a coin and select a song. It was. Ill recheck my 5 contacts under the wiper assy and wiper timing and see if something got off.
I haven't oiled anything yet, I have some clock oil someplace around here.
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 17, 2018 4:30:09 GMT
I have no idea what "clock oil" is-- When checking for a reading on the signal line, are 2 buttons in the selected position ? If so, there is a WOM problem. Ron Rich
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Post by aa777rob on Jul 17, 2018 5:13:23 GMT
No, the buttons release and I had nothing selected. Now that i think about it, id think the select buttons shouldn't release til the wiper has a chance to cycle. I can click C4 but as soon as I start the wiper cycle manually the buttons release. Aa777rob
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 17, 2018 12:54:39 GMT
OK--
Attza egg-zactly your problem--read the service manual---
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Post by aa777rob on Jul 17, 2018 13:35:52 GMT
Been reading, its just overwhelming all the info. Ill see if I can figure out how to adjust how it releases and also why I've got the letters all with continuity to ground. Ill be playing with it all day today. Aa777rob
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 17, 2018 13:43:17 GMT
77Rob
B4 "playing with it", you shooda oilet- it with a drop of 20 wt. N/d oil, on all pivot points. Do so now, then readjust all three screws as per instructions--it will work ! lol ! Ron Rich
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