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Post by fattdirk on Jul 21, 2018 21:49:19 GMT
New to the forums and also to Jukeboxes. I just picked up an M-100B that was supposedly working and then the guy stored it for 2 years and now it just picks up the record and then puts it back. He said the previous owner had shown him a relay to clean and adjust that would fix the issue but he couldn't remember which one. I have extensive experience repairing EM Pinball, bowlers and arcade machines but this is my first Juke.
I pulled apart the credit mechanism because it was sticking really back and cleaned the cancel solenoid to get it working smooth and cleaned and adjusted the contacts. I have the service manual and have been digging thru it.
I still have a few issues I'd like some help working thru.
1. The box will coin up and the selection light illuminates but the latch bar solenoid doesn't energize. Reviewing the schematic it appears there should be 25V ac on the solenoid and I'm not seeing that. Just for kicks I measured the impedance and it was ~3.5 Ohms which I assume is fine. Also if I hold in a letter and number button it will scan over to that record, stop and transfer but it will just pick up and and place the record up and down. Sometimes it will just say on the same record but then other times it will continue a scan but the pin unit didn't reset so it will just keep going to the same record until I manually move the pin back.
2. The box will only play a record if I hold the scan switch down to force it to play when it's transferring.
I appreciate any help I can get.
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 21, 2018 22:07:03 GMT
Hi Fattdirk,
Welcome--It would appear you have multiple problems here. More info needed--Questions--
1. Did you (or the other owner) transport this phono without first, properly, preparing it for transport ?
2. Are you sure the cancel coil, in the CCU, was a problem-- seldom is, but the rotary switch and it's escapements, are very often. The cancel coil itself suffers from a problem sometimes with the brass core stop--sometimes it's broken other times "missing"(?). be sure THE FUSE ("C") IS NO LARGER THEN 1.6 slo blo (probably marked as a "2 amp")( 1.5 works well !. Ron Rich
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Post by fattdirk on Jul 21, 2018 23:31:17 GMT
1. I'm going to say yes as I am not sure what the proper way to prepare it would be. This is the exact same thing it was doing when I picked it up with from the seller.
2. It wasn't the coil itself but everything was gummed up. The plunger was stuck in the coil and I could activate it by hand and it would still just get stuck in. Cleaning it has made it operate smoothly.
I'll change the fuse. I
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Post by fattdirk on Jul 21, 2018 23:47:48 GMT
I ordered you book on Amazon. Does it include a troubleshooting chart or is there someplace online I can download a troubleshooting chart until my book arrives?
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 22, 2018 2:27:30 GMT
Hi Fattdirk,
I don't sell any "books" on Amazon ? No my "Seeburg Mechanism Guide", is a supplement to the correct factory service and I&O ( or maintenance), manuals. It does contain some trouble shooting hints, but it does not replace the guide in the manual. If you moved that phono up from the cellar, it would b my guess it was not prepared properly for transport, and as such has at least "jumped" the contact block (aka "frog") that rides on the SAU, out of it's holder--this MUST be fixed soon, as the holder can be destroyed--and is rare as hens teeth-- Ron Rich
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Post by fattdirk on Jul 22, 2018 3:21:11 GMT
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 22, 2018 12:57:35 GMT
Fattdirk,
Yes-sir--that's the one I wrote, sold there by an authorized re-seller--it is a supplement--not a Service Manual ! You still need to use the factory printed service manual for your model. Thank-you for the purchase. I also sell it directly, at a lower price, here on this forum. Ron Rich
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Post by fattdirk on Jul 22, 2018 22:24:14 GMT
Ok I think I'm almost there. The frog didn't appear to have jumped any but I aligned it on both sides to makes sure. It only needed a minor adjustment.
I used the troubleshooting technique listed here to determine it was an electrical issue with the trip solenoid.
On a whim I noticed some suspect soldering on the contact block where the trip solenoid wires connect to so I clipped one lead to see if the record would continue playing without it and it did but it wouldn't trip and return the record obviously. I then messed around manually activating the trip solenoid with a jumper and I noticed that it would trip properly when moving right to left but not left to right. I then suspected it was the reversing contacts on the front of the carriage so I cleaned all the contacts with a flexstone. Now the machine is working great for selecting records and cancelling them.
One question I have is the machine doesn't return the record after the last selection is played. It just remains on the spindle and then will return when the next selection is made. Is this correct or do I need to adjust something?
Also, I'm going to be moving this unit into my upstairs living room. Is it ok to remove the whole player unit and the backdoor with the amp and control unit before I move it and then put it back together in my living room?
The latch bar solenoid is still not working. Any tips on where I should look to get that going? I can make a selection if I hold the letter and number.
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 23, 2018 0:57:35 GMT
Fattdirk,
I would never use a "flex stone" to clean contacts ! See the FAQ's, here, in our forum, on cleaning contacts.
That Question is answered both in the Seeburg Service Manual, and my "Seeburg Mechanism Guide"--it's "normal" !
As for removing portions of the phono--why not ?? The latch bar circuit is a 25 vac circuit--you need the service manual schematic to see what someone has done to dis-able it-- Ron Rich
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Post by fattdirk on Jul 25, 2018 2:00:08 GMT
Ok so this thing is driving me crazy. It was working fine for awhile and now it's rejecting the records again. It picks up the record, goes into play and the trip solenoid is immediately activated when contact V engages. I put an index card between the contacts to block it make sure it would play and it does. The moment I pull the index card out it trips and puts the record back. I biased all the switches on the cam bank and clutch bank and checked them three times.
I went to the drastic measure of unsoldering the wires to isolate where I'm getting a ground short.
1. Trip Switch - cut wire
2. Clamp arm switch - cut wire
3. Unplugged the reject switch connector
4. I clipped and lifted the resistor that's across the V contact terminals
I can visually see contact W is open so I didn't clip any wires in that portion of the circuit. Could the switch stack itself have bad fish paper and be creating a ground connection on one of the V contacts? I'm really at a loss here.
Is there a possibility the schematic is wrong? I was digging thru the wires and they seemed to line up. It isn't that complicated.
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Post by fattdirk on Jul 25, 2018 2:20:20 GMT
So I just pulled the connector for the player and measured continuty and the short goes away. Any tip where to look next?
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 25, 2018 2:37:11 GMT
ron Rich Fattdirk,
You "pulled (what) connector for the player" from where ? Use the terms in the Service Manual--please --
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Post by fattdirk on Jul 25, 2018 10:02:14 GMT
I removed connector S7(To Select-o-matic mechanism) from the selection receiver.
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 25, 2018 12:53:59 GMT
Fattdirk,
OK--I assume you have checked that connector to be sure there are no "hair wires" shorted out on either the male, or female portion of it --
If so, check that the Index pin is still on the wired portion and re-install it-- pull out plug S-6 ( a small two pin affair near the power cord)-- what happens ? Ron Rich
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Post by fattdirk on Jul 25, 2018 21:21:37 GMT
I think I found the issue. Capacitor C11 was a dead short across the terminals to S-6. What was that capacitor for? Do I need to replace it? I assume it's to prevent arcing on the contacts?
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