seeburg 100 pinbank

[vipertblck]

interested in learning more about the seeburg pinbank box's. basically all the select-o-matic 100's up until the late 50's when the tormat system came out. been reading that dirty contacts in there can cause issues; coils burn out, and so on.  is there a place that I can find more info on stuff such as

1-removing them from the box itself

2-stepped procedure for dismantling the pinbank on a bench

3-guide how to replace bad coils

basically anything useful for taking it apart and cleaning or replacing bad parts if need be. i'd like to gather more jukebox's as I find them and i'm sure there'll be some pinbanks that will need attention. might as well start doing research now!

[phillg]

Ah, you've discovered the one mistake I made while working on by model B - I restored the pinbank and didn't document it. Mine hand't been cleaned since the early 50's and did some very strange things-- some selections wouldn't work at all, some played repeatedly, some started the scan sequence then stopped before the record was actually played... all part of the pinbank fun!

With these things, there's not usually a 'standard procedure' but I can tell you how I did it. It's not actually very hard to do but it is very fiddly so set aside an hour or two for your first one. You'll need a handful of basic tools-- nothing specialist. And patience, lots of patience.

Let me write it all down and then I'll post it up here. If I get time, I'll take my pinbank apart again and upload some pictures as well.

Cheers,
Phill

[Ron Rich]

Guy's,
There are no "Guides" to this that I know of-- I have done did hundreds of them--NO TWO, are exactly alike, and therefore it would be very difficult to write up a guide. I use a special tool, and process, that was developed by a friend, after doing thousands of them ! He gave me the tool, and showed me how he did this job, but asked me not to divulge it to anyone, while he was still living, and/or working. So, my hands are tied on this subject-- Have fun, Phill ! Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

Nov 28, 2018 4:55:22 GMT phillg said:

Ah, you've discovered the one mistake I made while working on by model B - I restored the pinbank and didn't document it. Mine hand't been cleaned since the early 50's and did some very strange things-- some selections wouldn't work at all, some played repeatedly, some started the scan sequence then stopped before the record was actually played... all part of the pinbank fun!

With these things, there's not usually a 'standard procedure' but I can tell you how I did it. It's not actually very hard to do but it is very fiddly so set aside an hour or two for your first one. You'll need a handful of basic tools-- nothing specialist. And patience, lots of patience.

Let me write it all down and then I'll post it up here. If I get time, I'll take my pinbank apart again and upload some pictures as well.

Cheers,
Phill

phil,

thanks-that sounds like a GREAT idea. it looks like it's basic "nuts and bolts" so to say and common sense, I just wanna make sure I remove the correct ones and don't come across a "help this won't move or come out" and find out there's a hidden fastener or particular trick to do it or something along those lines..

[vipertblck]

ron,

lucky for you with those trade tips and special tool! wadda bout your mechanism guide; does it cover any pinbank stuff or not so much? really i'm just looking for info on how to remove it from the machine; maybe there's a trick for getting the cancel solenoids off and out of the way?! taking off pieces and panels is pretty straight forward for me, but if it comes down to replacing solenoids or something. I usually keep track of direction that parts and pieces go, but any helpful input on that so something doesn't get installed "backwards".

[Ron Rich]

Kevin,
NO-- the Seeburg MECHANISM Guide does NOT cover the different selection systems Seeburg used, in any detail. That's covered in the Seeburg printed manuals, fairly well. There is an "electrical sequence of operation" of the different systems, but it is not in detail. Ron Rich

[Ron Rich]

Kevin,

To remove the SAU, depends on the model of the phono--see the 'Installation & Operation' ("I&O", or, on early models, the "Maintenance Manual") Guide, for the model you are working on--some models ("R"--on up), require removing the mechanism from the cabinet. Removal of the SAU, is fairly simple--remove the four screws holding it, and CAREFULLY, slide it out of the contact block(aka "frog"). Some people like to "score" the ends of the SAU for an index of where to return it--I find this un-necessary, as I just follow the procedure in the Service Manual to align it-- Ron Rich

Edit--added hints--

Before removing the SAU, observe the frog, and how its contained by the spring steel--It MUST be returned exactly, and carefully, into that bracket !  After mounting the SAU, scan it a few times using the service switch--observe/insure that the frog is sliding smoothly, prior to setting the  final adjustments of the SAU. Check both sides of record A-1, and K-9, when adjusting-- final check somewhere near dead center of the record rack--both sides of a record.  Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

thanks ron

p. 2151 in my manual has it pretty straight forward, "contact block alignment". as far as removal it looks simple, but the contact block that looks to be part of the mechanism. i'm assuming put the mechanism all the way to one side right or left and remove it that way so it's easier to slide out? and the contact block will stay connect to the box and mechanism assembly??

kevin

[Ron Rich]

Kevin,
Well--yes and no-- The frog is connected by wires (soldered on earlier--plug in, on the model R up) but is not physically attached--it is "cradled" as mentioned above.You can set the mechanism either to the wired side of the SAU, or, in the center of the rack-- SAU MUST first be un-plugged from the WSR and the single connection to the ES. Wires must be free. Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

ron,

thanks. guess it sounds best to just start tearing it out when i'm ready and see how this frog/contact block seperates from the unit itself. one thing I noticed I thought may or may not be helpful; issue is really only with the D selections. sometimes work great, other times gotta do it 3 times or so before it accepts it. I watched one random pin while I was doing a D selection, it moved but not enough to engage the selection. it wiggles freely and doesn't, in my opinion feel to have any bind or tough spots; could this possibly be a coil for that particular pin that's going bad?

kevin

[vipertblck]

box is a BL....just so we're clear on that.

[Ron Rich]

Kevin,
on the D section-- check the top plate, grounding wire --probably is poorly soldered--common when that happens ! Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

sorry; bear with me while I learn all these terms. top plate on the SAU? in the diagram I can see that under that plate there's a grounding switch and grounding contact beside the group magnet. assuming this is where you're referring to the bad solder connection??

[Ron Rich]

Kevin,
In this case your assumption iz correct. Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

ron,

per your recommendation to check the grounding wire. was thinking of it this morning; is this soldered wire you're referring to UNDER the top plate and "inside" the SAU assembly, from my book diagram it looks like it's all "hard parts" in there, and all the wiring and solder joints are external. while on the backside of the box, doors off, you can face the SAU and right in the middle of it there's 5 wires evenly distributed that are soldered to a connection on the SAU. My box, they're all white wires..are these the ones you're referring to? They're separated into banks, A-B, C-D, so on. I was looking at the schematic and there's 5 grounded wires it shows...just not sure the location. haven't done a continuity test to see if they are in fact ground wires. this just popped in my head based on you saying check grounding wire connection, and the schematic showing 5 separate wires to ground. i'm guessing this is what we're talking about to check the solder joint...

kevin