2100 best MM cart and stylus

[Bosco]

Hello!

My wife declared "hands off the jukebox" through the Holidays.  Well, the Holidays are over.  I am picking up where I left off.  My Wurlitzer 2100 uses a solid state amp.   Problem is, when I abandoned the original tube amp I also lost the automatic gain control built into it.  RobNYC suggested a small agc/limiter unit designed for Karaoke machines.  Now I need to abandon the ceramic cartridge (P-132D) I'm currently using in favor of a mag cartridge.  Several folks warned me the p-132 would be too hot for the agc unit and they were right.  BTW, though I have a 2100, I'm using a tonearm from a 2600.  So, ok, that's the backstory.

Can anyone suggest a magnetic cartridge that will fit, with a stylus that can stand up to jukebox use, including being swiped by that stuff brush twice between plays?  Robnyc had a suggestion, but somehow I lost it.

Thanks, Bos

[robnyc]

Bos, go here www.flickr.com/photos/90641375@N06/ Scroll down a bit to the pic's of the blue Wurl arm with Pickering cart. This is what I've always used on all Wurlitzers and most other machines.

The Stanton V400 and V500 series are identical bodies but all are discontinued so you'll have to look around a bit. This type were known as Pickering V15 and various Stanton designations.

I always found it necessary to --slightly-- trim the brush, rebalance the arm and make a slight mod to the trip switch (I can describe. Make sure the arm cables don't bind. For some unknown reason Wurlitzer put the shields together at the plug on the arch. This can cause a hum, they should be separate right up to the cart. Any cart used with a metal body should have the tiny ground strap removed to avoid a ground loop hum. I settled on 3gm tracking.

RobNYC

[Bosco]

As usual, thanks, Rob, for the quick reply!  You gave me this info a couple of months back and I apologize for misplacing it.  I found several Pickering V-15s.  They all carried subset numbers.  Like, V-15/at-1, v-15/micro IV, V-15, ac-1, V-15/p/at   Do the extensions refer to the stylus? If so, I plan to get a new stylus, what do you recommend for tough jukebox use with the V-15??

I'll quote an old time jukebox guy.  "It's not a damn turntable, it's a record player."

FYI re: the little Lemon KTV agc/avc you suggested might be worth a try.  I did test it with my 2100 and it worked fine.  There was a lot of concern expressed that it might be full volume before leveling out.  Like, surface noise would be loud and music start might blast before leveling out.  Happy to say, not at all.  No perceptible increase in surface noise.  Upon music start the volume is slightly low, but quickly levels. Hardly noticeable.  In fact, that probably accounts for surface noise being quite low.

FYI #2  If I got it to work so well, you might wonder why I'm replacing the ceramic cartridge?  Well.. The way I got it to work took me way around the block.  The ceramic P132 went into a Pyle amp as usual.  I took a REC feed out of the Pyle, in and out of the Lemon, and into line level of a second Pyle that output to the 2100 speakers.  Rube Goldberg to say the least, but all I want to do was confirm the Lemon would do the job.  It did.

Bos

[robnyc]

Bosco, I never found the types of styli for the Pickering carts to matter in jukes though in-theory the N-PAC (AC for automatic changer)would be best. Supposedly, the real differences was to allow heavier tracking to trigger the changer's mechanical linkages.

I too am surprised that there was no overshoot problem on the little AGC unit. I guess they designed-in a gating profile in the digital processing and the record noise isn't high enough to open the gate. That is luck -although one could add a trim pot ahead of the unit to adjust the input level down if needed.

Anyway, let us know how it goes.

Rob

[Bosco]

Rob,

one last clarfication.  I have yet to see a Pickering V-15 without extra designations.  Like, V-15/ac-1, or V-15/p/18. Can I assume a V-15 is a V-15 regardless?

Bos

[robnyc]

Bos, the only thing I recommend against is using an elliptical stylus in these jukebox situations. The arms are too massive and don't have anti-skating. In this setting elliptical styli can bounce around in the groove and cause more wear.

Elliptical tip will have an "E" somewhere in the designation. See example:
www.turntableneedles.com/DATE2-Type-Stylus-for-Pickering-V-15-Cartridges--our-Needle-604-DE-copy_p_1185.html

Better choices will have an "ac" -for "automatic changer' suffix. However, Pickering-Stanton sent me whatever designations they cared to and they all worked in carefully set up and modded arms. At $5 and $6 ea. with stylus I didn't bother to specify.

RobNYC

[Bosco]

Thanks, Rob!  I just picked up a V-15.  It has the ground strap you mentioned.  You're suggesting removing it, Right?

BTW, once I get this in, and if it all works, I'll post a test to show that Lemon KTV in action, assuming it works well. Why anyone would call their product "Lemon" is beyond me.

Bos

Attachments:

[robnyc]

Jan 31, 2019 14:55:46 GMT Bosco said:

Thanks, Rob!  I just picked up a V-15.  It has the ground strap you mentioned.  You're suggesting removing it, Right?

BTW, once I get this in, and if it all works, I'll post a test to show that Lemon KTV in action, assuming it works well. Why anyone would call their product "Lemon" is beyond me.

Bos

Bos, yes that strap must be removed. The 2600 was the last to use the Sonotone 8T and those often had only 3 terminals when used in Wurlitzer. So, you'll need to either make a tiny jumper to combine the two grounds on the new cart. Wurlitzer cut short an extra lead that could be used for that ground and as mentioned earlier, keeping the channel grounds separate up to the amp is desirable to avoid ground loops and possible hum. I've often neglected to do this and has no real problems though.

As you probably know, do not solder the new flea clips while they are on the cart. The plastic will melt. I know, "duh"! -but people have done this and it destroys the cart.

As for "Lemon"  I have a lot of Asian friends (Filipinos and Thai) where they come from a "Lemon" is just a fruit....they also tend to use "F" and "S" freely till I mention how rude that is here :-).

RobNYC

RobNYC

[Ron Rich]

Rob,
You gotta be very careful around here with the word "Fruit" too !!The PC Nazis will get you ! Ron Rich