"Gripper Arms", both RockOla and AMi/Rowe--pot metal

[Ron Rich]

Hi All,

EDIT:-- This pertains only to the "pot metal" type grippers--see AMi/Rowe section for a note on the plastic grippers !!

I have probably run across over 100 of these gripper arms that wound up  in a "frozen", or semi-frozen state. I have never needed to dis-assemble one to "fix it", unless "someone" has "fixed it" prior. with grease that has turned to glue ! The following is how I do this:

1. Remove a record--select that space. Stop the gripper motor when the gripper  bow is directly over the assembly.
( If you don't know how that assembly works--GENTLY with out applying pressure on the bow itself, grab the bottom of the bow and you will notice that it is spring loaded to pull the bow down/ inward, to the record  -- the center section that also grabs the record, is spring loaded in the other direction to hold the record against the bow.)

2. Using a GOOD penetrating oil(suggest "Tri-flo" brand) or, with my can of 20 weight oil (see posted sticky on "Juke--Lubrication---") I bead the gripper bow, at the joint of the gripper and also oil the other part. I then "work" the oil in--this may--NO, WILL !, take awhile, as both parts need to "snap back" when you release them from ANY amount of pressure.

3. Oil ALL moving points on that gripper--especially BETWEEN the two  upper gears--these MUST slip by each other at points in the operation !

4. Make several selections--if the gripper bow now picks up the record and places it on the turntable, you are half way home.

5, If it picks up and places both sides down on the turntable, reject the record, and see if it picks it off the turntable. If so, check both sides of records.
If it won't grab a record from the turn table, GENTLY put a finger on the outermost portion of the bow ( where it "rests" while record is playing) and hold down --once again--"GENTLY"-- Do not put so much pressure on the bow, as to bend it--It must be able to move "up" --after-- having closed in, on the record !! You will now need to add more oil between the gears, and do this at least 10 times on the "top side" of a record--then 20 or more times on the bottom side of a record.
 
6. Once freed up and working correctly--add MORE oil, to everywhere, and play at least 100 selections--both sides.  Tell customer that this phono needs to be played, at least 100 selections per day for the next month, then should be properly re-oiled.
NOTE--Do NOT oil "plastic" gripper assemblies-- just "pot metal"  types!!

Ron Rich

EDIT: Ran into one of these on a CD payer yesterday--(don't know how this was done and the owner claimed not to know either ?), that had the gripper bow arm forced over the record basket to the left--it was touching the tops of the record separators, and would have broken all CD's if there were any in the basket, as it spun-- as it was--there were bent separators !   Owner did not want to spend any more on it--

[mikeinmarion]

Hi this is mikeinmarion, This is my first sign in and message. With that said, I'm hoping I'm asking the question in the right spot, if not please bear with me and guide to the correct area.

I am in Iowa, I recently bought a Princess model 1493, for a winter project and it appears to be in good solid shape But!

When I power it up the turntable spins and the record grabber is always in the horizontal position and the tone arm is about half way to the center of where a 45 would be. I’ve found that if I let it spin it always blows a 1.6 amp fuse. As far as I can see it doesn’t look like anything is bound up. I can turn the carriage motor with my fingers, I cannot turn the gripper motor by finger. If I push the free play button the inner selector (write-in)? carriage goes round and round not stopping until I power the box down. I’m not a electronic schematic reader “yet” but I’m trying . I do have a downloaded manual which does give a good amount
information, but the quality is crappy and it doesn't have any trouble shooting info in it. I am in the process of getting a manual from Victory Glass.  Could anyone give me any suggestions or guidance or recommendations? In my gut I feel like the grabber arm is frozen or bound up. Because of the position of the grabber arm, I'm unable take the mechanical plastic cover.

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Mike

[Ron Rich]

Hi Mike,
You probably should have started a new thread--but--for now--
Check all of the posts here--there are a lot of posts on the gripper assembly--do NOT allow that CB to pop too many times, as you will burn up the gripper motor ! Also=-- please read the FAQ's section above -- Ron Rich

[mikeinmarion]

Hi Ron, thanks for the quick response. When you say CB are you talking about the fuse ? When I purchased this Princess there was a 5amp slow burn in it. This may have caused a more serious issue. I have replaced and blown two of the 1.6 amp fuses while fiddling with it. I will continue reading FAQ's section. Thanks !

[Ron Rich]

Hi Mike,
"CB" = Circuit Breaker I hope a 5 a fuse was not in that motor circuit !!
Ron Rich

[mb9513]

Hi Mike: Ron really knows his stuff. I have seen the grease in the gripper have to be chipped out of it. I recently restored a 1493 for a customer in Cedar Rapids, as I too am in Iowa. I remember it was a bad one. I used heat to melt the grease. In your case I would be very careful so as to not heat up anything other than the gripper assembly. after it is warmed up you can turn the motor shaft. It sticks down vertically in the front just to the right of the carriage. This would be an alternative if you cannot get the oil method to work in. Mark

[johnlivo]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for this great info on "frozen" gripper arms. I am getting closer to plugging my 1458 Rockola in and seeing where it is at. At this point I am not sure if my gripper arm is frozen or not, but I know this machine has probably sat for 10 years or so, so I wouldn't be surprised if old grease has things hardened up.

Anyway, according to your explanation above, you are using the gripper motor to move the gripper arm and attempt to pick up a record while you are adding tons of oil. Is that correct?

If so, if the gripper is frozen in time, wouldn't that put great strain on the gripper motor, and gears?

Or is it that we remove some bolts and disengage the motor and do this all by hand?

Well, thanks for clarifying, and for your help as always!

John in Portland, OR

[Ron Rich]

John,
Do not "Force" the motor-- but you need to move the gears with the shaft, on the end of the motor--You will notice it is adapted for a good grip--
Run it one way as far as it will go--put some (SMALL AMOUNT !!) pressure on it--run it back as far as it will go--in other words--"rock it" back and forth. Be patient-- I have spent upwards of an hour doing this --never failed ! Hand got tired--used a SMALL pair of mini Vise Grips, on shaft. Also, found that "Tri - Flo" LIQUID, worked best for me-- Ron Rich

[johnlivo]

Ok, thanks for the additional info Ron, but still I want to be sure. Am I turning the shaft and doing the rocking back and forth with my own human hand, or are the motors on the jukebox doing the work, and I am trying to control it with the scan lever?

Really appreciate it if you can confirm which it is. Me or the Jukebox doing the work?

If it is me, where do I disconnect the gripper motor at?

Sorry, I must be frustrating you, but trying to explain all of this in just writing is not so easy. Would be great if we could talk on the phone sometimes too.


With much thanks! John in Portland, OR

[Ron Rich]

John,
Work on the motor shaft with the power OFF--use you hand --or a small set of Vise Grips ! Do NOT "Force it--rock it ! Do you have "Tru flo" ??
Ron Rich

[johnlivo]

Thanks. Ok, so motor off and by hand. Do I have to disengage the gripper motor in order to do this by hand?

I am working to put together my lubrication arsenal now.

I got a nice bottle of motor oil from victory glass that has a telescoping squirt tube.

I ordered some graphite grease, and will order some Tri-flo too. I see Tri-flo Superior Lubricant comes in a spray bottle, a squirt bottle, and a fine tip pin point syringe type dispenser as well. Which would you recommend?



While I am asking about Lubricants, I know you highly recommend Plastic safe safety solvent. The only one I found on line is: 

CRC QD Plastic Safe Liquid Contact Cleaner, 11 oz Aerosol Can, Clear,

Is this the product you are talking about??? 

I see Deox 5 and Deox Gold are also products you recommend. Is there something else I should have on hand?

I have also added some Prune juice to my shopping list. That one is for me!  LOL

Thanks as always guys!

John in Portland, OR

[Ron Rich]

Hi John,
If you dis-engage the motor, how are you gonna "turn the motor shaft" to do any "good" ?
I do NOT recommend the "Zoom Spout oil"--Please read our FAQ's section on "oil"--
Tri-flo in the squirt bottle , is what I have.
If "plastic safe", it should work well--there are several "brands"--
Up to you-- I find Deox-5 to be very helpful on sliding type contacts as stated in the FAQs-- I do not have the "gold" here--
Ron Rich

[johnlivo]

I followed up with Victory Glass to ask them what type of oil is in there "Bramec All purpose Turbine Oil" which he said is guaranteed not to gum up or anything with time.

Told me it is a 10 weight oil.

Where do I get the 3 In 1 20 weight Motor Oil you recommend? Just any hardware store, or need to special order on line kind of thing?

John in Portland, OR

[Ron Rich]

John,
You NEED to READ, our FAQ's section--whole bunch of stuff on "lubrication" THERE. Ron Rich

[johnlivo]

Thank Ron as always. Picked up the correct Oil today, and spent a lot of time just looking at the various parts of the gripper and getting familiar with it.

One thing I figured out is that the gripper is not in the "resting position" over the turntable area, but is down over the Record Magazine, open and reading to pick up a record.

I also read over your "how to free up a frozen gripper arm" explanation a few times. But my impression is that my system is different? My gripper arm does not seem to be spring loaded, but on a cylinder that goes in and out, and therebye making the arm get bigger or smaller to grab or release a record??

I also read through Mr. Know It All's talk on how to lubricate a gripper arm with some frustration till I realized that he begins with the Gripper arm in the Resting Position, and mine is over the Record Magazine. So, I really didn't accomplish anything much in the way of lubricating the gripper assembly, but my overall impression is that the old lube is not really that hard, and most likely things will move once I power this machine up.

I am getting close to it as well. This week I will go to a friends house who will teach me about how to check my Micro switches. I will also finish going over all the contacts and cleaning those up some.

Then I think I will be ready to finally plug it in and see what happens!

Wonder though if there is something else you think I should do prior to that??

On a more nostalgic note, I just played "Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep" on my record player. Funny title, but I bet if you play it you will be surprised what song it is if you don't recognize it by the title. Something how a song can bring back such memories and take you right back to another time.

John in Portland, OR