VL200 Bodine KCI-42 Motor Failure?

[alan]

Hello Jukebox Addicts - 
This is my first post.  

My VL200 starting playing records slower.  Then when it was time to put the record away, the motor didn't have enough 'umph' to do it. It just hummed.  I turned it by hand to the point where the record was stored and the carriage should move...but the motor didn't have enough power for more than one revolution before it just stopped and hummed.

I suspected the start/run capacitors that are 1.5 and 1uf.  I ordered new ones and installed them - it did not help.  The motor wants to turn, and if you help it out by hand, it turns about 1 rpm and stops.  While it will spin a record (albeit too slow), it cannot do anything that requires more power than that.

I traced and tested the AC all the way to the carriage and I am getting the correct 120V AC.

I tested continuity for the start and run fields at the junction where the four motor wires solder (on the carriage) and can only get continuity for one winding.  It appears that one winding is open.

I ask this because motor failure is rare for the Bodine.  Is there anything else I should check before getting another motor?

Many Thanks
Alan

[Ron Rich]

Hi Alan,
Very rare for a Bodine to fail--but have seen a VERY, few-- When was the last time the whole drive train, including the motor (cleaned-re-lubed?) was PROPERLY oiled ?? Have you determined the "O" contacts are good ? Ron Rich

[jukeboxmarty]

Hi Alan, You should definitely get continuity across both winding of the motor. I'd double check this, and if true it looks like you may have discovered your problem!

[Ron Rich]

Hi Alan,
Have you tried (with the power OFF !) flipping the reversing switch--then turning on the power--If it runs OK in that direction, I would guess that yes-you do, in fact, have a bad motor !--If it won't run, at that point, I would suspect it's something else, like a set of contacts somewhere in the "chain", not closing tight enough (dirty--pitted ?), to carry the proper amount of current--OR, that the drive train is so dry the motor can't overcome the friction ? ( see "contacts" in the FAQ's above) Ron Rich

[alan]

Hello Ron and Marty -
Many thanks for your responses. My apologies, we suddenly have a sick relative and I am out of town. This is the first time I have been able to check the post.

Like you, I am suspicious that I am missing something here as motor failure is so rare.

After changing the run and start caps (.1 @ 650V AC and 1.5uf+1.0UF 550V AC), I did try the reversing switch. It did the same thing - a fraction of a turn (in the opposite direction, of course) then it stalled and hummed.

The entire mech was cleaned and properly lubed (if the factory manual is a proper lube, that is) two weeks before the failure.

The motor was lubed but NOT cleaned. Do I take it apart to clean it, like most AC motors?

Also, I did not check the "O" contacts. I do not know what those are. Are they on the reverse switch or the big switch above and to the left (on the mech?) Looking forward to checking them out.

The drive train is very well lubed. I can spin it by hand all the way through a cycle very easily, which I did twice at the motor coupling (while the motor was still mechanically hooked up and the power off)

Question: shouldn't I just be able to jump AC power direct up to the terminals on the mech where the motor wires into the caps and see if the motor runs then? That would bypass all off the switches, etc. up to that point...set up the motor on the bench with the caps, clip lead it all and put 120V AC to it and see what happens?

Thanks,
Alan

[Ron Rich]

Hi Alan,
Got the manual--"O" contacts are clearly marked in the manual--top* set of switches in the upper stack.
*unless an AVC package has been added to that mech.
Don't know which version of the "lube chart" you are looking at, but I dis agree with the one that says "10 wt. oil, and Lubriplate".
Putting 110 at the reversing switches only eliminates the play control contacts-- not the "O" contacts--see the schematic. If you have a copy of my "Seeburg Mechanism Guide" I outline my procedure for lubrication in it (Should you wish to purchase, contact me at; [e-mail]). If you don't know how to "check/clean/service" contacts, see our FAQ's section here on this forum. Ron Rich

[alan]

Hello Ron
Thanks for your response, we are finally back.

I can see the "O" contacts in the manual, and my mech does not seem to have any AVC unit on it.

I cleaned out my motor - it was actually very clean inside. But I am left with one ball bearing, about 3/16 diameter. I took the motor out and took the motor apart (and little else) so many weeks ago...I don't know where it goes. Does it go somewhere in the motor?

Will contact you by email now.

Sincerely,
Alan

[alan]

Just a note: to be exact, all I did was take the motor cover off, unsolder the electrolytic leads, remove the motor clamp and take the motor apart. That single ball bearing must have come from there, as nothing else has been taken apart.
Alan

[tonyj]

The bearing is probably from the lower motor housing. The motor shaft rides on the ball bearing.

[alan]

Thanks Tony - you are right!
Off to install it.

[alan]

The bearings in the motor were stuck due to never being lubed. I lubed them, but nothing happened. I degreased them, lubed them again, and now the motor runs and pushes the mech just fine. To those who thought the motor was not bad, you were correct.

It did play a little slow however. I'll order Ron's book and do a proper lube job on the mech.

It picked up and played 6 records just fine.

Then suddenly it refused to pick up any records at all. I just scans twice, never stops then parks. Tried it a dozen times - scans twice, parks. This is rather sudden; it has always picked up records and played them. Replaced all the capacitors (in both chassis) a few months ago.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Alan,
Yes--all Seeburg amps from the MRA-3, used after the model B, have AVC, and it was available as an added option, on the MRA-1.
Do you have a copy of the trouble shooting guide for the V-VL models ? You will need to trouble shoot and see where yor problem area is--
Ron Rich