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Post by juke46 on Mar 26, 2017 19:17:24 GMT
The Continental is working great! Really punching those ole memory pins in good!
One of the title case fluorescent lights has failed. I usually change the bulb and the starter at the same time on all fluorescent lights with starters. The failed lamp is an 8 watt bulb that sits vertically in the title board case. I removed the bulb but found it very difficult to determine which of the four different starters/ballast served which bulb. I thought I was real smart so I left the machine on for an hour and felt each ballast. The cool one would be the ballast for that non-working bulb. I found a cold ballast and I changed the starter for it and installed a new bulb. It still failed to light so I changed the ballast. Still not working.
Appears I need to trace the wiring but that is a difficult task with the wires all bundled together. I do not see any obvious problem, in the wire harness going down to the lower part of the machine where the ballasts and starters are located. The possibility of taking that title board case apart looms ahead (I think). I just wondered if anyone had ever done this or had a better way? It would seem the process of pulling the bulb and bulb holder from the title case, to change the bulb, would be tough on those old wires with the now heat baked insulation might be a likely failure point for the wire.
I have suddenly become critical of those factory crimp on wire connectors in many areas of the machine. I suppose they did the trick for the expected life of the machine so one cannot be too critical 55 years later. It is tough to get a meter probe in those connections to test for continuity or voltage. I may need a really skinny probe tip or use something like a needle. I am not a real fan of punching holes in old insulated wires with a sharp pointed probe.
Maybe I'll put a candle in to replace that darn fluorescent bulb, wife says use one of those chemical glow sticks.
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Post by Ron Rich on Mar 26, 2017 19:46:08 GMT
Just a suggestion---
Since you have 4 lamps there, why don't you turn of the power, remove all 4 starters, turn the power back on and re-insert starters one at a time--That way you can determine which one is which. Once you have determined which ballast/circuit, lights the lamp that's not lighting, take a known lamp, starter and install it into the one not lighting --you then should be able to determine at least that you have a bad ballast(or it's not getting power ?) Ron Rich
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Post by robnyc on Mar 26, 2017 20:16:36 GMT
'46 Be careful here. It is quite possible has one of the socket has broken and may be touching the frame or back shell. This is one of the absolute STUPIDEST DESIGNS I have ever had the misfortune to work-on, and I've owned two of these machines. The wires become degraded and brittle from both heat and UV and when they are really stressed in the relamping process the insulation can crack or the conductors can break off the sockets. I dealt with both situations. My solution is to first make the side cheeks easily remove able. Since they are bolted both through the rear of the "radar screen" and to some curved pieces that run behind the title holders, some disassembly beyond the norm is required. Since the wires were breaking at the sockets I elected to replace them. In doing this I changed the mounting scheme to anchor the sockets with screws into the back plane and then to reattach the side cheeks but using only the three screws that protrude through the back. The idea is that when the lamps need replacement (as they will -often with these small tubes, it becomes simple a matter of removing the side cheek and no stress of the cabling. Here is a pic of one of my machines on display at one of my dealers in late 2000: s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-NYC/media/AMICont1_zpsaa7d83bb.jpg.html?sort=2&o=100 The lighted area looks a little shorter both because of camera flash and the fact that I used shorter 6 watt tubes which I have a large stock of. When it was sold I gave about eight of the 6 watt tubes to the new owner along with printed instructions on how to change them. This mod does require some accurate drilling through fairly tough metal and might affect the value if dealing with dopey purists who want things "exactly as original". IMO, it was either do this work, or end up with a service call when these lamps blow every 5+ months. Rob-NYC |
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Post by juke46 on Mar 27, 2017 8:46:40 GMT
Thank You Again and Again Ron and Rob. While I am not happy about the terrible design I feel better knowing I am not the only one who thinks AMI made a very hard to service lighting system for that title board case. I have one wire that is burned looking and brittle at the base of the fluorescent tube holder that does not work. I haven't looked at the one on the other side so it probably is also in bad shape. If those little light tubes, at each end of the title case did not make the machine look so much nicer I'd leave em both off.
That sounds like a great idea on making the bulbs easy to service. Yeah! Pulling the starters on each of those small mini fluorescent tubes makes a lot more sense than waiting for the ballasts to heat up. This "simple" little project is a pain; maybe I can turn it over to my wife to fix! She could not do any worse than I have.
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Post by jukenorman on Mar 27, 2017 9:09:40 GMT
It would be fairly straightforward to replace these small fluorescents on the title board with LED strips.
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Post by robnyc on Mar 27, 2017 21:22:08 GMT
It would be fairly straightforward to replace these small fluorescents on the title board with LED strips. My one-watt brain thought about that option right after posting...but laziness and a dying parrot took precedence. LED strip are how I'd do it today though I'd still make the side cheeks easy to remove in case I got another 'brilliant" idea...... Rob |
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Post by juke46 on Mar 28, 2017 12:42:27 GMT
The LEDS are attractive to me also. I've never played with them Somewhere, it seems, I heard some LEDS get hot. I'll check into that. I see most will function on 12 volts. I suppose that is DC only. Maybe a Wallwart transformer would be more than adequate. I would purchase then and then bench test for a few days. Hey, an excuse for a new toy to play with!
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Post by jukerocks on Apr 7, 2017 12:31:20 GMT
I've just replaced a 30" T12 fluorescent tube in my Rockola 454 with a 30" LED tube light from Amazon. I cut out the ballast and starter. Runs cool, but the light is only on 180 degrees of the tube, full length. Worked well in the dome. I don't know if this is relevant to this application, but I believe LEDs as replacements may be worth trying, based on my first experience.
Patrick
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Post by Ron Rich on Apr 7, 2017 14:38:23 GMT
Hi Patrick, and All,
What concerns me most of all, is the ability of a LED to affect any plastic "backings--colors" used, heat considerations, and the length of time, the LED's last. I am aware of the limitations of incandescent, and fluorescent lamps in this area, and was wondering how they compare. I tried some LED's that were supposed to replace #44/47 lamps, and found that while good at first, they quickly lost luminescence, and at no time were they adequate to replace the page lamps in a 3W-1, wall O matic ( lit the pages OK, but "washed out" the printing on the title strips). Ron Rich
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Post by jukerocks on Apr 7, 2017 15:40:50 GMT
Ron: The 30-inch LED I used lights the keyboard and the graphics on the underside of the glass very nicely, but, since this doesn't light 360 degrees like a florescent, the title strip board, particularly at its farthest point, isn't lit particularly well by day. In the dark, it's not as evenly lit as with the original but still good. I believe I misstated the bulb I replaced. It's a 30-inch T8; the T12 is in the lower cabinet. It fit into the original tombstones with modifications to the wiring.
I can't speak to how long it will last, as it's only been a few months since I put this in. If it proves out over time I may consider retrofitting others. The hard plastic graphics in my Rockola 464 (like my icon here) and its baby brother the 463 (100-selection) have been really baked by the florescents and ballasts over the last 42 years, so a cooler bulb might not hurt if it will still light them properly. This one stays cool over long periods of use.
Patrick
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Post by Ron Rich on Apr 7, 2017 15:50:23 GMT
Hi Patrick,
Yes--the fact that LED's don't light at 360 like an incandescent, is THE biggest problem lighting the title strip pages on a wall-box. I need to light 12 of them--but at $5, or so per lamp, the 22 cent 44 looks much better to me--just tired of changing them, and the sockets are getting VERY old !
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Post by Craig on Apr 7, 2017 17:01:20 GMT
I replace the lights in all my pinballs with LED replacements and they put out far more light and last a lot longer than regular bulbs. The number one reason is they don't get nearly as hot so are better for the plastics and paint. Check www.cometpinball.com/ they have a HUGE variety of LED bulbs and are by far the cheapest around. Check out the surface mounted diode area and you fill find some SERIOUSLY bright 360 bulbs. |
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Post by jukenorman on Apr 7, 2017 17:02:33 GMT
I have not long started using LED lights to replace fluorescents but rather than buy tube replacements, I have been buying the self adhesive LED strips (5 metre reels) and small power supplies. I am in the UK and can buy everything pretty cheaply from ebay. That way I have flexibility - if 360 degree lighting is required, the strip can be spiralled around the existing tube.
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Post by robnyc on Apr 8, 2017 1:35:36 GMT
Hi Patrick, Yes--the fact that LED's don't light at 360 like an incandescent, is THE biggest problem lighting the title strip pages on a wall-box. I need to light 12 of them--but at $5, or so per lamp, the 22 cent 44 looks much better to me--just tired of changing them, and the sockets are getting VERY old ! Ron, the more recent "warm white" LEDS might work well in the 3W1's you are dealing with and lumen maintenance has greatly improved from what I experienced in 2001. I don't find the light distribution suitable for the forward-facing sockets on the 200 boxes. I buy either #44 or #47 in bulk here: www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=3&pg=1 Generally, I get 3000 every few years. They also have LEDS: www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=3&pg=1This company has fairly cheap LEDS: cointaker.com/t/ledsMake sure they are full-wave rectified for AC use or they'll have annoying peripheral flicker. The #19's are another matter. Here, I suspect you'll have to "roll your own" -or go with short LED strips such as those used in storefront windows: www.1000bulbs.com/category/12-volt-warm-white-tape-light-led/Rob |
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Post by Ron Rich on Apr 8, 2017 2:32:25 GMT
Hi Rob,
Thanks for the info--There is at least one #19 bi-pin, replacement on the market-- being sold on ePay--
Ron Rich
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