AMI/Rowe UK made Wallbox

[peterd51]

Hi,

Does anyone have any info, diagrams, etc, for a UK wallbox made for imported AMI/Rowe Jukeboxes by Music Hire Group / Rainbow Manufacturing based in Leeds (UK)?

Even an idea about connections / voltages might help me as I'm currently drawing schematics based on what I have here and it seems odd to me.

Someone has connected a 240v cable to inputs that are clearly labelled as 50v AC, and the 'earth' and 'neutra'l wires are reversed to what I would expect.

The way it's connected it's putting 240v onto the control board which looks excessive and dangerous!

It's connecting to a Rock-Ola Hideaway which has two WB800 power supplies installed, I assume so that it can run two of these wallboxes.

One of these WB800s had a mains votage cable with a power plug connected to the 50v AC 'output' side so I assume they've plugged it in at some time.

The WB800s have a Toroid transformer with 7 ohms across the input windings (240v) and 0.8 ohms across the outputs (50v) in both of them.

The output fuse was 'blown' in the one with the power plug attached and the other didn't have a fuse in that position.

I'm not keen on putting 240v onto either of these without more info as I'm not sure what might happen!

Regards
Peter

[Ron Rich]

Hi Peter,
I know nothing about this other then it sure would not be legal here in the US, to put 240 into a wallbox ! In the late 30's, early 40's there were some wallboxes that connected directly to the "110" power feed. These were called "wireless" since there was no "home run" of wire from the box to the phono. Ron Rich

[amiman66]

Hello Peter,

I asked you on another forum what main board is in your Rainbow Wall Box? it it a MCU-6, MCU-7, MCU-14 or MCU-15?

I have no idea re the Rockola connections but these wall boxes were made to connect to various jukeboxes.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[peterd51]

Hi Ron,

yes, not really as it should be in the UK either...someone had applied 240v to the output side of the transformer!

Hi Alan, yes, thanks for that, I did reply on Facebook last Friday. It's an MCU-14...

but since then I took the plunge and powered up the WB800s and there was no 'bang', they both work.

So I connected one to the wallbox and that works too...these things must have been made to withstand a nuclear blast!

The keypad had two broken keys and the 3-digit display had segments not working but I'd bought one off Ebay a week or two back that also had some broken keys. I've stripped down both keypads and I'm making one good one, took the opportunity to rub the rust off and paint it matt black and I'm just waiting to rebuild it.

Now I'm just stuck for the pin connections to use on the control board 12 pin output connector. It's split into 8 pins at the top, then a missing pin and 4 pins at the bottom. I have the sevice manual for the jukebox and the receiver and I'm hoping to find the connection details in there. I've read elsewhere that there are basically three, volts, common, and data pulses but I've not gone into details yet.

It looks like the jukebox power supply was zapped though as there's nothing coming out of it so my next job is to work through the schematic and check it out.

Regards
Peter

[Ron Rich]

Hi Peter,
How do you know someone applied 240 volts to it???--My thinking is, that if applied for any length of time--all of the smoke contained within that transformer would have escaped ?? --I'm sure you understand that if released, that transformer will never again work --LOL Ron Rich

[peterd51]

Hi Ron,

yes, I know what you mean. Too many of these miniature components don't have enough room for all the smoke that's required for them to run properly.

A previous owner connected the wallbox to the 466 using a three core mains cable for 50v AC, Signal and AC Control wires, with another single wire for the common.

They either sold it, or maybe passed away (our auction room does a lot of 'house clearances' when people die), and when the jukebox was moved someone cut these cables around mid-point to make it easier.

Some time later they, or another 'new' owner, maybe found the two mains cable ends, assumed they needed a live feed and attached plugs to them (as this is what I found when I got it home).

I'm also assuming that they plugged them into a live socket and when nothing worked they unplugged it all.

Some time later it all arrived at our local auction room and I bought it.

I think Toroid transformers are rather more robust than other types and as far as I can tell they haven't been damaged, possibly the output fuse blowing saved the wallbox and WB800 transformers.

But these WB800s were also connected to the 466 power supply 'output' and that's dead, so maybe something has blown in there or maybe it's just a 'normal wear and tear' fault. I've not started on that yet so I don't know.

Anyway, with the various wallbox power-supplies and control box connected on my workbench the LEDs light up. I can press the test credit button to get five credits, key in a number and a few seconds later the relay clatters away sending two streams of pulses with a short gap between.

From what I've read a few days ago in the Receiver Manual that seems to be something close to what it should be doing.

My final check will be to attach a meter or lamp to the actual output pins of the control box and see if it transmits.

I seem to have been 'lucky', so far!

Regards
Peter

[amiman66]

Jun 25, 2019 13:08:45 GMT peterd51 said:

Hi Ron,

yes, not really as it should be in the UK either...someone had applied 240v to the output side of the transformer!

Hi Alan, yes, thanks for that, I did reply on Facebook last Friday. It's an MCU-14...

but since then I took the plunge and powered up the WB800s and there was no 'bang', they both work.

So I connected one to the wallbox and that works too...these things must have been made to withstand a nuclear blast!

The keypad had two broken keys and the 3-digit display had segments not working but I'd bought one off Ebay a week or two back that also had some broken keys. I've stripped down both keypads and I'm making one good one, took the opportunity to rub the rust off and paint it matt black and I'm just waiting to rebuild it.

Now I'm just stuck for the pin connections to use on the control board 12 pin output connector. It's split into 8 pins at the top, then a missing pin and 4 pins at the bottom. I have the sevice manual for the jukebox and the receiver and I'm hoping to find the connection details in there. I've read elsewhere that there are basically three, volts, common, and data pulses but I've not gone into details yet.

It looks like the jukebox power supply was zapped though as there's nothing coming out of it so my next job is to work through the schematic and check it out.

Regards
Peter

Hi Peter, 

I do have some of the keyboards and a wallbox to use as a test bed, if you can not sort it out.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[peterd51]

Hi Alan,

After I got the system (apparently) working, I did some more tests this morning, then went for a walk to the beach to think about it...

it seems obvious that the relay is sending pulses to the jukebox so the contacts on that relay should be connecting to the output pins, yes?

So I set my AVO to ohms and tapped out each pin in turn to each of the relay connections in turn. It looks like the 'signal (W1)' is coming from the Stepper, via the WB800, through fuse FS1 on the control board, through the relay contacts 1 to 3 and then to pin 4 on the output connector...that will eventually connect to the receiver.

I've taken a video of the test on my phone, not sure if I can post it here...

I'm just winding up the nerve to stick my meter between FS1 and pin 5 and then making a selection to see if it flickers some resistance. There's no voltages on either of these currently, I assume FS1 will get some volts from the Stepper when it's connected and powered up, not sure yet.

I've come to a stop now until I can check out and fix the Jukebox power unit but does any of that above sound about right to you plese?

Regards
Peter

[peterd51]

quick follow up, the signal wire does go out on connecter pin 4 when the relay activates...

[Ron Rich]

Hi Peter,
From what I gather, it seems you are on the correct track. I can only reference to Seeburg's operation, which looks for a timed, negative voltage, to operate the step relays, in the phono. Ron Rich

[peterd51]

Hi Ron,

thanks, the 1769 Receiver manual shows 117v AC on pins 3 and 1, pin 1 looks like the return wire, although that voltage looks a bit high to me.

I expected it to be 35v, or possibly 50v.

It's cold and wet today so I don't fancy going out to my workshop as the only spot I have for the jukebox is in the entrace with the wind blowing straight at the main doors. To do any work on it I need to have the workshop door open!

Hopefully I can trace the wires tomorrow and have some idea where they connect at the receiver.

Regards
Peter