Speaker upgrade on jukeboxes

[zelgy]

Hi all! I am curious on thoughts about replacing original jukebox speakers with modern speakers.  Of course, many of the new speakers have composite materials and not paper.  Do you lose that vintage sound?  I have no problems with the sound of my Seeburg STD4 Mardi Gras, but was only curious.  Any feedback would be appreciated! 

[robnyc]

Zelgy, a lot of this depends on the era the machine was made along with your personal taste and available amp power. Speakers were selected for efficiency and their free-air resonance (in the case of woofers)so as to match the cubic area of the enclosure which was usually just the un-damped insides of the machine. There is also the matter of impedance regarding the amp and any crossover involved.

When dealing with a machine made before the late 60's I almost always added a highly efficient horn tweeter and left the rest of the speaker assembly intact (assuming the drivers were in good condition).
By the late 60's most juke makers were using better pickups and more powerful amps along with better internal speakers. In the case of Seeburg, the intro of the Showcase (SS160)in fall 1966 "opened up" clearer highs and IMO would not require further mods.

In your case the amp has approx 35w/ch RMS so there is enough real power (though not the 100w/ch claimed)for you to add decent externals if desired, but I'd consider the original internals (5 ohm BTW) to be best.

Rob-NYC

[zelgy]

Rob, I appreciate your input! Great perspective!

[Ron Rich]

Hi Rob,
I agree, in 99% of the cases, OEM speakers are what should remain.
FYI, starting with Seeburg LS-2's, cabinets were damped--porting was done. When the SHP amp was introduced, the amps were "100 watts",available--BUT, you gotta read the fine print--which WAS printed--but you gotta find it, and I'll never tell (lol) Ron Rich

[e093116]

Interesting question.

I'm 42 years old, so I don't really know what these machines would have sounded like when new, and I don't have buddies with machines that I can listen to, in order to get an appraisal of how the machines I've brought back to life actually sound.

I've bitched to my dad a few times about the sound quality and he's always said he thinks the machines sound good.

Earlier this year, I was visiting a friend in Scottsdale, AZ, we went to a place called USA Tube Audio.  We thought this was a second hand store that sold radios, tubes, etc., but it turned out to be a super high end place that caters to the Scottsdale elite.

We caught the salesman on a good day, he spent more than an hour with us and he played records for my friend and I through high end systems costing $50,000 and up (yes, that's not a typo $50K+!!).

We discussed the various speakers he had and the "space age" materials used in the construction of the cabinets and speaker cones.  One set of speakers we discussed at length had a $70,000 price tag.

In the end, after hearing records played through this equipment, I walked out of the store with a much, much better appreciation for how my jukes sound.  I have a Seeburg LS1 with two UCS speakers in my shop (about 1200 square feet), and I'm really happy with how the setup sounds, and feel pretty good about my $70 UCS speakers in comparison to the $70K set we listened to!

I also have an STD160 machine (which is similar to your STD4) which had bad/degraded speaker cones from poor storage conditions...I bought a set of NOS Seeburg speakers on ebay (although not PN correct for the machine, they are 12" speakers) as replacements for about $20 each and I think they sound great.  I believe the seller has these still available...for ~$50 shipped for a pair, it might be worth it to you to try and/or have around as spares if you feel the need to tinker, and at the price you can't really get hurt.

I've found the best gains in sound quality have come from ensuring good/clean electrical connections, re-gasketing/minimization of cabinet rattles, proper mech setup, proper tonearm spring tension, and NM or better records.

In the end, I agree with the feedback that OEM is best, and remember, these were commercial machines, with thought and engineering put into their design for the listening pleasure/sound reproduction for the patrons and the establishments (rooms) they went into.   Most of us probably don't have a room with the proper acoustic design to be able to differentiate what super high end stuff sounds like anyway!

[Ron Rich]

Hi William,
Well, yes this is an "interesting" subject--to me anyway--I have been repairing Seeburg's longer then you have lived ! IMHO, Seeburg's (and probably most other companies) sound engineers attempted to provide the "best quality" audio they could from each model. They had to consider such things as "location environment" cabinet design, speaker abilities, cross-over systems--and, of course the damn "bean counters" (You know--the guys that were never happy with "better", unless it was also, "cheaper" !). Seeburg audio engineering dept re-did the sound system with subtle "tweaks", including the speakers, amps, (part# changed, to match enclosures,from at least, model LPC, on thru SMC), from the 1st amplified days, as far as I know. Being 74 (can't believe that !), and having an 80% hearing loss in my left ear, and a 20% loss in my right ear,(Hey--thatz 100% ain't it ?), I can no longer tell "good" sound from "bad". That being said, when younger, I have been in many a "sound room" including The Seeburg sound testing chamber, at the factory. I never could tell any difference in sound when an amp was tweaked (except for the TSA-4 model)! IMHO, there are many snake-oil sales persons, in the hi-end audio bizz--
Speaking of which--those "Original" Seeburg speakers sold on EPay, are NOT "original Seeburgs", as he states--read the offer closely, and look at the photo of the box--NONE are addressed to "(The) Seeburg Corp.", 1500 N. Dayton St., Chicago!. They are all addressed to varying "successors". Ron Rich

[robnyc]

Jun 9, 2017 15:14:52 GMT Ron Rich said:

 I have been in many a "sound room" including The Seeburg sound testing chamber, at the factory. I never could tell any difference in sound when an amp was tweaked (except for the TSA-4 model)!

Ron, what was done in that case? I know what I did to "improve" the TSA series -especially the 1's....

Rob

[Ron Rich]

Hi Rob,
That was in 1969-- I don't know, I have trouble remembering what,or if, I ate last night! All I can recall is that they had dug up an early version of the PFEA cabinet and a Code , and Code C, or D amp--The code D had a notably better sound, both hi's and lows. If you had copies of the four code TSA-4's schematics you could see it, and I think I had a list of changes to the code C--maybe D ? around here --somewhere ?
Rn Rich