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Post by Gary on Apr 11, 2020 22:39:50 GMT
Hi Folks, I will soon be looking to buy a replacement pair of 6L6 tubes (or valves if you are in the UK). It would be good to get members recommendations. Does a matched pair make a noticeable difference in sound quality on a jukebox amp? Are any Brands better than others? Are there any Brands best to avoid? It has been suggested that the Chinese made tubes are not such good quality. Can anyone confirm this? Is it best to buy newly manufactured tubes or look for tested NOS. I have carried out some research and it seems that original RCA and GE made some excellent quality tubes but are getting very expensive now. I have also heard that Electro - Harmonix make a good quality new tube. There are so many variables that it is difficult to decide what to go for. Price is obviously going to be a factor, but I would prefer to pay a bit more for a better quality product. I realise that this is a very subjective matter, and will likely draw a bit of a debate as to which brand is best but it would be good to get different opinions so I can make an informed judgement. At present, I have a Rockola 1454 with original amp and that is what the new 6L6 tubes will be going into. Years ago I had an AMI model B which played 78s which had the original rebuilt amp, Astatic 51 cartridge and played through a new/replacement 15" Big Cat speaker and boy did that belt out a tremendous sound. That particular amp utilised 2 6L6 output tubes and if I remember correctly when I bought it they originally were RCA but when one went bad I swapped them for the equivalent Russian made Sovtek brand. All suggestions/advice will be greatly appreciated. Gary
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Post by 45RPMDJ on Jul 17, 2020 22:53:05 GMT
Hi Gary, I have the same exact question as you!
What did you ultimately decide to buy?
Thanks
Jeff
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 17, 2020 23:31:25 GMT
Guyz,
Let me tell you a little secret-- Do you have a favorite brand of gasoline for your car ? How about a favorite brand of aspirin for a headache ?
On the gas, depending on where you purchase it, and what day, it may or may not have come from the "branded" refinery ! Aspirin, by law, has to be the same ( strength aside) no mater what brand it is. So--- When tubes were being made here there were abut 6 companies doing it-- So, like gas and aspirin, who knows which cookie cutter it comes from ? One day if one was out of one type, they would purchase a batch from another factory with their own brand name on it. RCA in particular, was owned , sometimes only partly, as they sold it off, bought it back a few times, by GE, and they often produced each other's branded, tubes.
As for a "matched pair", in a mono amp--my opinion--why bother ? In a stereo juke amp, outputs tended to be the newer, smaller envelope, but again, why bother? NOS or new "Russian" made ? Not much difference today-- See the FAQ's section for suppliers-- Ron Rich
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Post by jeffinmn on Jul 18, 2020 13:28:22 GMT
I’ve tried different brands in my Seeburg V200 and they all sound the same. Other elements, like the cartridge you are using, make a bigger difference.
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Post by Ron Rich on Jul 18, 2020 13:50:13 GMT
Guyz,
Prior to my employment at a Seeburg Distributor, they constructed a "sound room". When the first Seeburg transistor amps were introduced, there apparently was a lot of "bitchen" about "poor sound quality". So, in this demo room, they had a LPC-1 ( with the optional DS speakers attached), and an older tube type phono in there -- They could play the LPC mech through either of the set-ups, by throwing couple of switches which controlled relays. I was tolt, that NO one, ever, could "guess" which they were hearing ( the transistor or tube amp) through either set-up !
Ron Rich
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Post by jukingeo on Nov 22, 2020 20:40:16 GMT
Guyz, Prior to my employment at a Seeburg Distributor, they constructed a "sound room". When the first Seeburg transistor amps were introduced, there apparently was a lot of "bitchen" about "poor sound quality". So, in this demo room, they had a LPC-1 ( with the optional DS speakers attached), and an older tube type phono in there -- They could play the LPC mech through either of the set-ups, by throwing couple of switches which controlled relays. I was tolt, that NO one, ever, could "guess" which they were hearing ( the transistor or tube amp) through either set-up ! Ron Rich That is a bit of interesting history there as even I was told many times that the LPC-1 had one of the worst sounding transistor amps made. I was also told that the older style 6L6 amps sounded better than the ones in the stereo amplifiers, but here, I have noticed not much difference. But sadly, I would agree with anyone that says the LPC-1 is NOT a good sounding machine. Frankly, when it came to transistor based machines, I moved from Seeburg to Rowe/AMI instead. But hearing some of the 70's Seeburgs like the bandshell model...they sounded pretty darn good. |
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Post by Ron Rich on Nov 22, 2020 23:21:36 GMT
FYI-- There are very few differences between the TSA-1, used in the LPC-1's and the TSA-10, used in the USC-1 & 2 "Bandshell". The problem with the sound in the LPC-1's, was caused by "bean counters", when at the last minute, they decided that the DS speakers should be "optional" (extra cost, on an already expensive phonograph). If you have ever heard a LPC-1 setup the way it was designed by Seeburg Engineering, it would have blown your mind away ! Ron Rich
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Post by jukingeo on Nov 23, 2020 14:27:54 GMT
FYI-- There are very few differences between the TSA-1, used in the LPC-1's and the TSA-10, used in the USC-1 & 2 "Bandshell". The problem with the sound in the LPC-1's, was caused by "bean counters", when at the last minute, they decided that the DS speakers should be "optional" (extra cost, on an already expensive phonograph). If you have ever heard a LPC-1 setup the way it was designed by Seeburg Engineering, it would have blown your mind away ! Ron Rich
So it was the speakers themselves and not the amp that was the weak point? Interesting to know. I ran into this issue with Rock-Ola jukeboxes, particularly from the 80's. They just used terrible speakers. On one Rock-Ola I repaired, a speaker was bad and I subbed the top speakers out for Pioneer speakers. When I fired the machine up, I was blown away as to how drastic the sound difference was. Needless to say at that point, that machine was one of the best Rock-Ola's I have heard.
But still, in terms of styling, I would never take an LPC-1 over a Bandshell any day. Not that I am much of a fan of the 'enclosed' jukeboxes anyway.
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Post by Ron Rich on Nov 23, 2020 14:42:37 GMT
No sir, The main speaker used in the LPC's was identical to the speaker used in all tube type stereo amp's. It was the cabinet design ! This cabinet was designed by the audio engineer predicated on having the "DS" speakers installed-- "marketing", bean counters, decided not to include these speakers with the LPC-1--but to make them "optional" (at an extra cost !) Ron Rich
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Post by jukingeo on Nov 23, 2020 18:00:58 GMT
No sir, The main speaker used in the LPC's was identical to the speaker used in all tube type stereo amp's. It was the cabinet design ! This cabinet was designed by the audio engineer predicated on having the "DS" speakers installed-- "marketing", bean counters, decided not to include these speakers with the LPC-1--but to make them "optional" (at an extra cost !) Ron Rich
So they intended it to have a different speaker as per the cabinet design, but then change the drivers to what they normally used, thereby creating an enclosure mismatch? That certainly would explain quite a bit. Now it does have me curious as to what it would sound like with the right speakers attached to it.
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Post by Ron Rich on Nov 23, 2020 22:01:14 GMT
No-- they did not "change anything"-- Do you know what Seeburg "DS" speakers were ? Ron Rich
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Post by misterv on Nov 24, 2020 19:46:03 GMT
Back to the original question, Shuguang (China) 6L6GC are OK in my estimation, and are commonly used stock with many guitar amp manufacturers. Sovtek 6L6GC from Russia and JJ from Slovakia are OK too and pretty affordable/obtainable. I guess there's as much of an obsession with Tube brands in the Juke world as there is in the Guitar world.
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Post by jukingeo on Nov 25, 2020 22:27:19 GMT
Back to the original question, Shuguang (China) 6L6GC are OK in my estimation, and are commonly used stock with many guitar amp manufacturers. Sovtek 6L6GC from Russia and JJ from Slovakia are OK too and pretty affordable/obtainable. I guess there's as much of an obsession with Tube brands in the Juke world as there is in the Guitar world.
Having fixed many a guitar amplifier I can pretty much say, you are good with Sovtek, or Svetlana, JJ is nice too. Stay away from EH and Chinese tubes as I had problems with those. That was my experience in a guitar amp where the tubes are pushed hard. So in essence, if you don't push the amplifier, most tubes should work fine. Overall, I was big fan of Svetlana and I currently have Sovteks in my jukebox.
Probably not. DS sounds familiar though. Wasn't there a Seeburg machine with that designation?
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Post by Ron Rich on Nov 25, 2020 23:25:01 GMT
Yea--Yes-- please read your messages here --Ron Rich
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Post by jukingeo on Nov 27, 2020 16:47:58 GMT
Yea--Yes-- please read your messages here --Ron Rich Ahhh, yes. Thought so. My memory was jarred back into place today as I took out the TSU and the SHFA units on my machine. I don't have the original amplifier in my machine and it is an SHFA-5. So there is a connector on this amp that says, "DS-Speakers". So I suddenly my memory kicked in and I remembered the Seeburg DS and I guess the speakers you were talking about are those outboard speakers that attached to the sides? Yeah, I don't ever recall seeing an LPC-1 with those. |
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