Seeburg 201 Selection Problem

[inojuli]

Hello, everyone:

I'm new to the forum, having just discovered that "Phonoland" is now defunct.

I searched the forum, didn't find existing threads, so here goes.

My Seeburg 201 has several problems, and I want to "divide and conquer," so starting with the biggest problem first:

1: My phonograph will start to play random selections from the "B" sides, although they haven't been selected. It starts with all being normal, then more and more "B" sides will be played as the mechanism scans to the left. Eventually, it gets to the point that every remaining "B" side trips the mechanism. This usually happens when the phonograph is @ the left 1/3rd of the magazine. I can't see anything in the "Troubleshooting Guide" that addresses this exact problem, but I'll admit I might have missed something in my reading of the manual.

2: Occasionally, I will have a record "skip" backward @ a certain point of the playing surface. It can be anywhere on the surface, not just near the end or beginning. I have checked the tracking pressure (5 grams), counterweight setting, and replaced both styli. The records will play fine on my Dual turntables. The records are modern, not contemporary with the phonograph. BTW, the tone arm was changed out to an arm from a model 222, so it's compatible with stereo records. It has tracked superbly until recently.

3: About once or twice every ten selections or so, my latch bar solenoid will remain energized, so that the number and letter keys stay down. I can get the solenoid to release if I press another letter or number key. In spite of the sticking, the selection is actually made, and plays normally.

There are some more problems, but that's for another day.

Thank you all!

Randy S.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Randy,
Your problems are not limited to this model--they can occur on any tube type Tormat model.
1. IF, this happens ONLY, on B sides-- I would check the condition of the plunger ( pin) that rides in the frog under the Tormat Unit. It must be flat-to slightly domed, and have silver left on it--next check the condition of the grounding bar and the tightness of the screws holding it. Also check the detent switch for pits and proper adjustment (see FAQ's above, for cleaning/checking tips). Check TMU alignment.
2.This is normally an adjustment problem, a lack of proper lubrication, or the tone arm wire has become stiff. The adjustment would include the balance adjustment( did someone just change the tone arm, or the whole cradle assembly-?-they are different !, and counter balance spring adjustment. It could also be an indication of a lock lever problem---
3. What's the model number of your phonograph ? ("201" is a series, not model number !)

[inojuli]

Ron: Thanks for your kind response!

1: I'll verify that the problem is/is not "B" sides only. I'm not sure @ this point. It was both at one time, but I cleaned up the socket and plug @ the pulse amplifier end to see if it would help stop the problem. Is it possible to check the ground bar in the Tormat without removing it from the machine (I've never been that far "into" it)?

2: I will go over these adjustments - I haven't looked @ the lock lever before. The tone arm was changed; not the cradle. It has worked well until recently.

3: Phonograph is a 201-D, but I am currently using a SPU-1. I also have a HDU-1 mounted, but not connected.

Thanks again!
Randy Sorenson

[Ron Rich]

Randy,
Check the "grounding bar" with your eyes--and a small Phillips screwdriver--If happening on both sides of a record, I would suspect a resistor in the TSR is changing value--like the 2 Watt 56 k ?? Could also be in the PA--did you change the .05 cap and resistor that goes to it ?
As for the tone arm change--this can not be successfully done without changing or modifying the existing counter weight-- Ron Rich

[robnyc]

Randy, I'll go through these one at a time and based on my experience of operating these relics commercially.

1)Random unselected tripping is caused by either sparking on the ground plungers under the tormat or a faulty 12AX7 which has 'hot spots" on its cathode causing it to be hyper-sensitive. The sparking may be obvious in a darkened room. If not, add a wire attached to one screw on the ground plate and the other end on the main chassis. If tripping stops, check that there is no rust on the ground plate that there is slight overtravel of the plungers (about 1/16in is OK) and visually check that the clearance between tormat and readout block does not change as mech scans. this can happen if the tormat has been bent by some idiot using it as a handle to lift the mech. Note that I eliminate the connection to the ground plate plungers and use a permanent wire to the selection receiver chassis adding a 1 amp-fast fuse inline.

2) Tonearm. Check that the tiny bias spring on the trip switch whisker is still in-place. This takes most of the load off the tonearm in tripping the switch. It must be attached to the little hook at the rear of the whisker. Check arm balance; select a slot with no record. When the arm lands where the record should be, lift the arm with a tip of a pencil or other non-sticky tiny point and take the arm through it's total arc of travel. It should not show bias at any point. BTW: With the stereo arm tracking at 3gm is practical and if you are using the newly manufactured styli it appears that setting the pressure "just right" is critical. I also eliminate the tonearm damping on all Seeburgs.

3) Latchbar. First determine if the latch solenoid is actually remaining energized. From your description it sounds more like residual magnetism is holding it. There is a large block resistor in the keyboard assembly in parallel with the solenoid. It's purpose is to damp the kickback from the solenoid when power to it is cut off. If that resistor opens up, it can lead to excessive residual magnetism. If the solenoid is actually still powered, that points to the timing relay in the credit unit. Make sure that the timing relay points are making-breaking properly and not badly pitted.

RobNYC

[Ron Rich]

Hi Randy,
On the solenoid problem--as Rob points out--it could be a "sticking" solenoid--verify that it is/is not remaining powered. If NOT powered but "sticking", I don't think it will be "residual magnetism" that's holding it-- Guardian solenoids of that type used internal springs to prevent "magnetism". These spring tend to snap off and lodge themselves in the area of the plunger--MOST of the time, you can dis-assemble the solenoid from the keyboard and "shake out" the broken spring parts--and it will operate just fine--( if you are real cleaver, and you have them--they can be replaced without dis-assembly of the solenoid itself !) Ron Rich