Seeburg STD-160 scans twice, stops, no selections play

[Ron Rich]

Hi Terry,
OK--once again-- try the battery trick-- be 100% sure you have a good D cell, only ! Put the pos. end of the cell against bare metal --Remove the RCA plug from it's jack and tap the RCA plug, pin, against the neg. of the cell- install the RCA plug into it's jack, and make a selection --
What happens ? Ron Rich

[tnarv]

Hi Rich,
OK-Change in diagnosis. Just for the heck of it(and since nothing else was working)I decided to remove the DCC Power Supply and change 2 or 3 100UF 50 v. electrolytics that really looked dried up. I DID check them with my capacitor checker and they were definitely open. I put the board back in the DCC and now when I use the "battery trick" it selects all records, plays them but I have to unplug the machine and plug it back in and reject it(since I don't have any 45's in it) so it would go to the next record. Changed another cap and some iffy resistors and now(after using the "battery trick" again)it selects all of them and I no longer have to unplug the machine and back in to reject the selection. I didn't wait for it to do all the "B" sides but I will. What's your take on where we are now? Should I double check the Read/Write voltage again in scan to be sure it hasn't changed? I tried making a selection but it still won't play the one(s)I choose. What do you think? Terry

[Ron Rich]

Terry,
Just un-plug the Tormat plug and let it scan to reverse the battery selected torrids. See for sure, that both sides are selecting--Ron Rich

[tnarv]

Rich,
I was incorrect when I said ALL selections picked up after using the "battery trick." It initially picks up the first 3 or 4 records after each play and reject, but it always seems to "stall" somewhere in the process of picking up records in sucession it stops moving to the next selection by itself. If I cancel or move the tonearm to the end of record it just keeps loading the same record, unless I cycle the power, plug back in, cancel. It then will proceed but sometimes only selects a few and "stalls" again. I'll try unplugging the Tormat plug as you suggested to see if it will play the other sides and analyize from there. Thanks Rich. Terry

[Ron Rich]

Terry,
That's a separate and non-related problem-- Do you understand how the mechanism works ? Do you have a copy of the Service Manual, a copy of my Mech Guide, and Seeburg MicroLog Trouble shooting Guide should help you understand exactly what the mech is telling you ! Contact me if you wish to purchase them. Ron Rich

[Ron Rich]

Hi Terry,
Just had a 2nd thought-- Electrically what you have described can be caused by a failure of the 3M-1 contact and / or the holding contact of the Detent/trip, relay. Watch the relay operate-- It must open just prior to needle set down-- Ron Rich

[tnarv]

Hi Rich,
Thanks for your reponse. Evidently I don't know exactly how the mechanism operates. I've looked more at troubleshooting than the operation of the mech. I will read that portion and pay more attention to how it really operates. Yes, I do have a copy of the Service Manual. I purchased one from "always jukin" and paid $70 for it. That's a lot of money for a reproduction IMO but, I need something to work with. No, I have not purchased your Microlog Troubleshooting Guide as yet. I plan to purchase both guides. In any event I will take a look at the 3M-1 contact and detent/relay contacts and see what it's doing. I'll also try pivoting the jumper to the Trip Relay position and see if the mech still stalls at certain points. That should tell me if there's a problem with the detent/relay and, or, contacts correct? Thanks for your help as always. PS I have and have been using a Seeburg troubleshooting guide that I've been using that has 4 different scenerios depending on the problem. I've been following it and it's pretty cut and dry as far as eliminating one of 3 areas. I've been following the symptom #1 for scans twice, plays nothing. Since the "battery trick" now works and charges all Toroids, I changed my diagnostic direction from "read" to write issues, but I could have both correct? Terry

[Ron Rich]

Hi Terry
No, flipping the link proves almost nothing, in this case-- It only proves that the 2m-1 contact, and the detent contact on the relay are working. Ron Rich

[tnarv]

Hi Rich,
Yes, you are correct. I did not end up flipping the link to the Trip as you said it would prove nothing. I DID take the cover off the relay so I could see what is's doing during this procedure. I charged the Torroids and scanned, started on the first record, played it, and rejected, moved to the next, only this time it did not move to the next record when I rejected it. I looked at the Trip/dentent relay and noticed it was still engaged. I rejected a couple more times and then the mech went to the next record. I had it play, reject all records(A & B sides)until completion. Does this mean all Torroids are good and the detent timing is correct using this test? It looks like I'm going to have to look at that 3M-1 contact as you suggested. It's a little inconvenient to do anything with the mech as it is in the box and getting at things are difficult. Would've been nice to be able to run this with some sort of jig, but, unless it was elaborate you wouldn't have all the electronics to check it properly. I found it interesting I could not get this mech to go more than a couple records before "stalling" prior to today. One other note, sometimes the mech continually won't stop rejecting on a particular record, doesn't happen often. It just keeps on rejecting over and over again on the same record. Is there another switch causing this intermittant condition or am I dealing with some mechanical issue? Thanks again Rich.

[tnarv]

Rich,
I cleaned the 3M-1 switch and that solved the "stalling" on one-position problem. Using the "battery trick" all records(A & B sides)are picked up, played and rejected all the way through with no issues of stalling. What exactly does this tell me? Does it mean the Read-out and Tormat are both good and we have some sort of write in problem? Is there a way simulate a pulse from the DRD1 gray box to a ramdom Torroid to eliminate the box or is it a possible write in problem? That write-in voltage still measures around 4v. I'm sure I don't have any SCS Thyristors to sub any in the gray box, besides I'd rather not fool around in there as you mentioned "static discharge" problems possibly destroying it. If it comes down to repairing this box are you able to do that, if need be? Thanks Rich. Terry

[Ron Rich]

Terry,
Glad that fixed it-- yes-- you have a write-in problem. Write in voltage should be 105 +++ Pull the plug for the DRD from the DCC-- check voltage now---??

[tnarv]

Rich,
I pulled the plug you mentioned and the voltage shoots up to about 125v. Something in the gray box is loading down the PS voltage from the DCC. Am I correct? tks Rich.

[Ron Rich]

Yaz sir-- something's wrong inside that DRD--- what is the warranty date on it ? Ron Rich

[tnarv]

The sticker on the DRD says it expires Sept. 1978. I think that would be out of warranty for sure. I'm about as sure as I can be that the Main Trigger SCS(can't remember designation # right now) is the problem. I measured from Cathode to gate and get a reading much like a resistor. If this is an everyday SCS I should be able to find a replacement. Just wondering if you might have one of these. It looks a little different than all the others as I assume the others "fire" the individual torroids depending on selection. I can't locate any of these by the number on the device. It can't be that exclusive but I don't know any of the specs. on it. I Googled both of the Manufacturing numbers on it but can find nothing. Just know that it's basically a version of a Thyristor. Looks like we're getting a bit closer to solving at least most of the problems. Thanks very much Rich for help so far. Terry

[Ron Rich]

Terry,
Save me some time-- Whatz the Seeburg part #, or the numbers on the item, or location number ? Ron Rich