STD4 endless selection repeat in UK

[normantomlin]

I'm based in the UK and have a seeburg STD4. I've exchanged messages with Ron sporadically over the years, regarding an issue in still having. Had a look at the stickies, but can't find quite the same symptoms

Unless I switch the power off then on, the same selection plays repeatedly.
I've just noticed that the 24v relay in the DCC is relaxed during the first play from power on. It then energises at the end of the selection and stays endlessly energised as the selection returns to/from magazine to turntable and repeats endlessly.

I did read of something similar suggesting putting pressure on the release lever to see if it 'buzzes' but mine seems to be at its lowest point in play and can't be depressed.

I have Ron's troubleshooting guide and a manual and have cleaned terminals on both relays and the detent switch.

Any suggestions? I'm pretty sure the clutch is free

[Ron Rich]

Check/clean the 3M1 contacts first-- if not there, do the same to the contacts in the trip/Detent relay. Ron Rich

[normantomlin]

Thanks for the suggestions Ron.
I've cleaned 3M1. There was some slight 'lube misting', but nothing worse. No change sadly. When you say trip/detent relay, do you mean the 24v one in the DCC. If so I've already done that. I noticed that the slo blo fuse hard wired on the contact stack is blown, but I believe that only controls popularity meter so presumably not related to my problem.
I took out the detent switch near the motor and cleaned it yesterday, but that didn't seem to change anything. Is it possible that switch could be out of adjustment?
thanks again
Norman

[Ron Rich]

Hi Norman,
Which "DCC" and which relay is installed in your phono--see the Trouble shooting guide--
The Detent Switch has no bearing on this problem Yes-- the plug in relay in the DCC and the 3M1 contacts are the offending ones. If you are sure the two are clean, did you check their current passing abilities as stated in the "contact cleaning" FAQ's posts ?
On another thought-- Is the safety plunger clearing, when the mech is acting up ? Ron Rich

[normantomlin]

Hi Ron,
It's a DCC4 and the relay is a 24v 44-509802. I haven't done the current passing, which I'll turn to now. Safety plunger is free as far as I can tell.
thanks again
Norman

[Ron Rich]

Hi Norman,
That's the correct relay for a -4. I can not see the safety plunger on your phono from here, so you will need to use your eyes to determine if it's OK-- Have you oiled it properly, lately ?? Hint: Best view of the plunger on that model, is from the top - use a flashlight ("torch" to you), if needed and just watch it. Ron Rich

[normantomlin]

Hi Ron,
I've tested 3M1 when closed using both analogue and digital meters and get the equivalent of a short across the contacts and the wires leaving the terminal block. Just checked the safety plunger and it completely withdraws and then returns when the selection repeats. Is it possible a component in DCC has failed?
Norman

[Ron Rich]

Hi Norman,
Yes, it is possible a component has failed-- Which version 311125 is installed in your DCC ?
I am unclear-- Is the relay de energized during record play,and if so, exactly, when during the time, is it re-energized, or does it stay energized ? Ron Rich

[normantomlin]

Hi Ron,
It's a 311125D and from power on, the relay energises when play starts and will stay energised continually until power is switched off. I replaced the capacitors in the DCC a few years ago.
I was in the States on vacation in 2019 and mailed the gray box, black box and the boards out of the DCC to Ed Gardner in Lancaster PA (he'd offered to test them when he replied to a post on a board) and he tested them for me and returned them to my last address in USA before coming home.They tested fine at that point.
Norman

[Ron Rich]

Hi Norman,
It's neither "box" ! Try the following--Swap the plug in relay from the DCC with the one in the Amp--temporally, and see what happens ? Ron Rich

[normantomlin]

Morning (UK) Ron,
tried that,made no difference I'm afraid.
Norman

[Ron Rich]

Hi Norman,
It's the "morning" here too-- 6:30 AM to be exact--
Swap the relays back--
Is the 3M1 contact opening/closing, as it should ? If so, follow the schematic-- ground comes from the grounding screw (didja READ your copy of my Seeburg Mech Guide about that screw ??), to the DCC, which un-locks that relay-- something is open-- a plug or poor solder joint ?
Ron Rich

[normantomlin]

Hi Ron,
3M1 is open during play. It closes as the selection is rejected and then opens again just before repeat play starts. i did read about the ground screw, but must admit I haven't looked at it. Will try that next.
Norman

[Ron Rich]

Hi Norman,
OK, with the mechanism in scan position, use that test lamp from the DCC to/thru, both terminals on the mech. switch and back thru the wiring to the contact on the relay that "holds" the ground on it. Ron Rich

[normantomlin]

Hi Ron,
Haven't managed to find the ground you're referring to. Where should I be looking?
thanks
Norman