Seeburg 100C no cancel any pin

[rudy18d]

Hi Ron,

I have followed your guide on cleaning contacts in the FAQ section and feel like I have adjusted the SC, C, and IC switches correctly but I still cannot get any selections to cancel on the 100C. I even doubled checked the and cleaned twice the LC and RC switches.

I followed a Dr. Know It All post on testing the electrical cancel circuit and I momentarily jumpered SC to ground on the mech and all the coils work and cancel the pins. What am I missing? Is the issue still in the SC, C gapping?
Thanks,
Rudy

[Ron Rich]

Hi Rudy,
First of all, are the cancel "pins" lined up correctly with the selection levers-- do the coils move the levers, or is there no movement ? Is the pop meter coil working ? Are the coil "cores" seated within the coil itself, and tight ? Is there still 50 % or more of the silver contacts, left on the C-SC points--zero "pits/burrs" ? Ron Rich

[rudy18d]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the quick reply. Let me answer your questions one at a time:
1. are the cancel "pins" lined up correctly with the selection levers? Yes, doubled checked since I rebuilt the pin bank and reinstalled.
2. mech-- do the coils move the levers, or is there no movement ? Yes they move but only when grounding SC momentarily
3. Is the pop meter coil working ? Yes it moves but only when grounding SC momentarily
4. Are the coil "cores" seated within the coil itself, and tight ? Yes, confirmed
5. Is there still 50 % or more of the silver contacts, left on the C-SC points--zero "pits/burrs" ? No, they are well used. But when manually forwarding the the mech by turning the motor by hand, when the contacts engage I have do have continuity. No pits or burrs that I can see.

Thanks Ron!
Rudy

[Ron Rich]

Hi Rudy,
What type meter are you using to confirm continuity? --- and do you have continuity on both sets of contacts, at the same time ? Ron Rich

[rudy18d]

Hi Ron,



I use a Fluke 87-V VOM for all voltages and continuity. I do have continuity to both sets but did not check continuity at the same time. I can do that this evening.



Thanks!



Rudy

[Ron Rich]

Hi Rudy,
READ, our FAQ's section--continuity post ! Ron Rich

[rudy18d]

Ron,

I HAVE READ.  Just as you quoted "I think a "digital" meter may work, depending on brand/type" and this one has on all other mechs I have worked on in the past. I will double check with an analog meter tonight just to validate.

[Ron Rich]

Rudy,
Neither one of my Fluke's, nor my HP, work for that, reliably ! They all tend to "say" it's OK, at times, when, in fact, it's not -- I added the "may work", as I have no way to see all digital meters- My (1972) Weston 660, Analog, as the suggested test light, will show poor continuity when the others say it's OK. Ron Rich

[barockteer]

The cancel circuit is a very clever use of the switches to produce a brief (<1 sec) pulse on the cancel/pop coils. As the switch cam moves into play, first the C contacts close, while the SC contacts are still closed, to provide a path to ground. As the cam moves further, the lever then opens the SC contacts. So the current only flows during the interval when C and SC are both closed. Also, the IC contacts on the reset lever switch are in series to only allow the cancel pulse to conduct to ground when going into play, and not again when coming out of play.

To test this, with power off, measure resistance with your meter on the IC contact (top leave, blade 1, has two wires) to ground. You may see a low resistance to ground, but when the switches activate you should see very low resistance to ground (whatever your meter leads are, typically <1 ohm). Trip the mech manually and turn the turntable to slowly cycle the mech into play. If you don't see the low resistance on the meter, there's still something wrong with the switches C/SC or IC or wiring to them.

Also note that the 'hot' side or 25VAC is supplied thru the service switches to the cancel/pop coils thru the reversing switch contacts LC/RC. With power on and nothing moving, use your DVM to make sure you see 25VAC to ground on the common (middle) leaf of LC/RC.

ALWAYS be careful around the mech switches when power is on - there is 120VAC line voltage present in many locations!

-Tony

[Ron Rich]

Hi Tony, ( & all),
PLEASE-- be sure that when you post advise, it's correct ! One should NEVER, "turn the turntable", to turn the mechanism cam, especially true on most model C's, that had the "plastic" drive gear !!! Turn the motor coupler ONLY !! Ron Rich

[barockteer]

As usual, I stand corrected! Very interesting that dozens of YT videos show moving the mech by rotating the turntable. However on close inspection of the original manual, I find that it does only specify turning the motor shaft in every case. On my 100C, turning the turntable would work fine with no effort/no strain with the original plastic gear. I had to replace the plastic gear with a later model fiber gear (for other reasons) and after that it would only turn in one direction with reasonable force, so I resort to turning the motor shaft for the other direction. I would think it's OK as long as you follow the general rule of never forcing anything...

If that's the only correction to my suggestion I'm doing pretty well!

-Tony

[Ron Rich]

Hi Tony,
Yep-- ya done good-- however one can cause problems on the fiber gear too if not VERY, careful-- I suggest it NEVER be done ! I believe that I have cautioned people about "you tube" video's all over this, and other "forums"-- Ron Rich