435 Princess deluxe issues

[jukenorman]

Hi Pete,
As Ron says we are going round in circles - but you have to resolve this! You say the K2-2 switch engages. The K2-2 switch is what energises the ADR relay! And you previously said when you operated it manually with a pencil that the ADR relay came in?

Try this, there are two contacts on the K2-2 switch. Make a selection and at the point where the process hangs up with the K2-2 switch made, take a piece of wire and connect one of the K2-2 contacts to ground. Does the ADR relay energise? Then repeat it but this time connect the other K2-2 contact to ground. Let us know what happens.

The K2-1 contact is closest to the actuator with the K2-2 contact below it.

Norman.

[jukenorman]

Hi Ron,
The accumulator reset solenoid (credit subtract solenoid as we might otherwise know it) has two associated contacts, K2-1 and K2-2. The K2-1 contact generates the start of the fat pulse. The K2-2 contact energises the ADR relay which is on a 50 milli second time delay and the ADR relay is the end of the fat pulse and also releases the pushbutton latch etc at the end of the write-in process. The ADR relay has no capacitor showing on the schematic so I presume is one of these copper loaded relays, I don't actually remember.

Norman.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Guyz,
Is K-2 an enclosed, plug-in, type relay--smaller then the typical "ice cube" sized one ? Does it have "round", or "cross bar" type contacts ? Ron Rich

[prime]

ADR on left K2-2 on right

[prime]

Hi Norman i will try the ground this evening, when it hangs both switches will be closed , that what happens it doesn't pulse, so i touch ground to the right side first, that goes to the ADR then the left it goes to credit subtract. Just to clarify i touch the contact point of the switch with ground? pete

[prime]

Hi Norman i cant find a diagram or part that says K2-1 ,where is this switch?

[jukenorman]

Hi Pete,
To clarify K2-1 is the top contact (closest to the actuator and ADR in your picture) with grey and brown/white wires - leave it alone. The K2-2 contact is the lower one - with what looks like a white/red wire and a white/blue wire. Although the schematic says tan/red and blue/red (and I suppose we should go with that)! Anyway, ground each of these in turn.

Norman.

[prime]

Hi Norman i touched the switch for the ADR with a ground wire no change but when i touch the K2-1 switch the two switches release and the write arm spins again , then when it hit the pin the two switches close again. So definitely there is a positive affect grounding the K2-1. Should i connect a ground wire so it is getting ground before i activate the write in? pete PS I connected the ground wire to K2-1 so it was contiguous, The write arm just spins after a section but will not stop.  

[jukenorman]

Hi Pete,
We are attempting to carry out logical fault finding here so in order to do that, you have to follow my instructions if I am going to be able to help you. I asked that you ground each of the K2-2 switch contacts in turn - you must do that! I did say to leave the K2-1 contacts alone, messing with them is a red herring and confusing the issue as it stands - I have had a quick look at this but nothing springs out that helps in any way. Can you ground both sides of the K2-2 switch in turn as I asked, this is going to help I assure you.

Norman.

[prime]

I thought you said the K2-1 was the second blade beside the K2-2, If you ask me to do both switches then that is what i did, i did not go to another switch. The switch i touched has two blade contacts, the first one when energized moves the subtract wheel, the second one releases the ADR switches. As requested i grounded the one that did the subtract first and it released both switches or blades, i then let the write in spin and engage both switches again, then tried the ADR side no change it just stayed stuck. what did you want me to do? 

[jukenorman]

Hi Pete,
Here is a bit of cut and paste fom above

"Try this, there are two contacts on the K2-2 switch. Make a selection and at the point where the process hangs up with the K2-2 switch made, take a piece of wire and connect one of the K2-2 contacts to ground. Does the ADR relay energise? Then repeat it but this time connect the other K2-2 contact to ground. Let us know what happens."

"To clarify K2-1 is the top set of contacts (closest to the actuator and ADR in your picture) with grey and brown/white wires - leave them alone. The K2-2 set of contacts is the lower one - with what looks like a white/red wire and a white/blue wire. Although the schematic says tan/red and blue/red (and I suppose we should go with that)! Anyway, ground each of these in turn."

Maybe I could have been clearer and said sets of contacts - there are four wires on two sets of contacts. You need to ground the tan/red and the blue/red in turn (the ones on K2-2). Ignore the grey and brown/white wires on K1-1.

I hope that is clearer.

Norman.

[prime]

This may be what you wanted, start write in wheel stops, switches pull in, I then ground first switch, write in wheel starts again, I then touch second switch ,ADR activates and all stop . What you dont know is the write in hammer does not push the pin down because when it stops it is buzzing, if while buzzing i push pin then touch first switch with ground the switches releases,and the carriage starts then if i touch the second the ADR activates and the write stops spinning , and the unit grabs a record. pete

[jukenorman]

Hi Pete,
That doesn't make total sense at all - can you clarify the above by letting me know what colour wire is on the contact that you are grounding at each operation.

Norman.

[prime]

Ive attached a picture, i was never touching the K2-1 switch just naming it wrong. As per the photo ,start the write in, write in stops at selection, everything vibrates, touch ground to Tan White wire ,buzzing stops Write in arm starts spinning again, when it stops buzzing starts if i touch Tan white and then just touch Tan Red write in starts moving then immediately ADR moves and switches make contact. All arms and buzzing stopped. If i start write in arm stops at selected pin and buzzes, then i push pin manually buzzing increases then i touch Tan white wire buzzing stops and carriage starts, at this moment write in arm spinning so i touch Tan Red wire just slightly write arm stops and record plays.

[jukenorman]

OK Pete,
Let me run through with you again what I want you to do!

First of all in the picture you've just posted above, in the centre, are the two switches side by side K2-1 and K2-2. The K2-1 switch blade wires are coloured brown/white and grey and are the left-most wires connected to the switch stack (in your picture). I don't want you to touch these at all.

Next to the K2-1 switch is the K2-2 switch and the two switch blade wires are coloured tan/red and blue/red. These are the two right-most wires on the switch stack as shown in your picture.

I want you to make a selection and when the write-in process hangs up, I want you to gorund the tan/red wire (one side of the K2-2 switch). All I then want to know is whether the ADR relay energises. I think you may have answered that part (although I'm not certain) and the ADR relay does indeed energise. At this stage I'm not particularly interested in any consequences of the ADR relay energising - just that it does.

I then want you to make a selection and when the write-in process hangs up, I want you to ground the blue/red wire (the other side of the K2-2 switch) and I want to know what happens. Typical replies to this would be - 1) nothing changes or 2) the ADR relay energises.

I have tried to be as clear as possible, do you understand what you need to do?

Norman.