Tripping problem Seeburg VL

[PatrikD]

ok im sone giving up on this problem, My VL trips when i make selections, if i press A1 it will trip right away with the mech at home postion, cancel that song it go and play A1, if i make a selection when the mech is moving it make a selection. i also have a trip when i isolate the frog from the Tormat.

The Receiver is the one named TSR 5 L6, i cant find a schematic for that one, it has the 2D21 tubes, the receiver is recapped and all the resistors have the right value.
Rebuild PA, new Tube. (tested 2 rebuilds PA)
Tried another Tormat.
TES totally gone thrue.
Isolated the end "of record tripping" from mech to TSR, still tripping problem.
Connected WB disconnected TES and still same tripping when WB is used.
Also have tried out all the Grounding solutions.

Ive looked at the signal with an osciloscope on the RCA contact that connects to PA, i have exaclty the same pulse when i make a selection when it trips that i have when the read out find a selected song. i also looked at the - Bias to the trip tube and have exactly the same signal.

im out of ideas now, do anyone have a tips for the problem? or have a schematic for the TSR 5 L6.

Best Regards

Patrik

 

[jukenorman]

Hi Patrik,
There is a little bit of information to be found at the jukebox-world.de archive on the TSR5 but no diagram or knowledge of a diagram. You description of your problem does sound very much like a grounding problem especially your description of the mechanism tripping while it is stationary. This type of problem has been covered previously on the forum, I don't know whether you have carried out a search for these?

I also have a question - if you make selection A1 and the mech trips wherever it's located, does it then go on to play the real A1?

Norman.

[jukeboxmarty]

I just checked an original Seeburg service manual for a schematic. The manual covers the TSR1, TSR2, TSR3, TSR4, TSR6 and 7. It does not have a schematic for a TSR5. All the page numbers are in order; it does not seem to be missing or omitted. The TSR1 and 2 utilize the 2D21 tubes; The TSR3 and up utilize 2050 tubes.

[PatrikD]

Thanks for the answers, its not a grounding problem, i tried everything that i can think of, the strange thing is that the pulse that are made at tripping are exactly the same pulse that comes with read out, Jukenorman all the WI are correct and also the RO, the only problem is the Tripping, i removed the connections at the F-plug at the TSR to the pin 3 and 4, so it use the two contacts at mech to break the signal to the 2D21 Trip Tube,so now its not tripping when making a selection when its playing, Marty i also have that manual but not a word about this TSR :-(.
The tripping problem is also there when i isloate the selectorblock from the Tormat.

If someone have this TSR i would really like a Highres photo of the underside of it.

Patrik

[jukenorman]

Hi Patrik,
To go back to your first post where you say "Ive looked at the signal with an osciloscope on the RCA contact that connects to PA, i have exaclty the same pulse when i make a selection when it trips that i have when the read out find a selected song". That should not be the case - when you make a selection, a toroid is being flipped and of course you will get an induced pulse in the sense line, but that pulse should be the opposite polarity to the induced read-out pulse that causes the trip. Otherwise it would trip the mech..

So something is wrong and usually that problem is grounding for your type of problem. I had wondered whether the connections at the tormat phono (RCA) plug had somehow been swapped but that wouldn't explain why you're seeing the same polarity of pulse when you examine it with an oscilloscope?

Norman.

[PatrikD]

Hi Norman.

I agree with you, could be a grounding problem, but the big question is where..... i think i tried everything by now, getting crazy about this, (The RCA plug is orginal), try to record the Osciloscope results and post it here.

Patrik

[jukenorman]

Hi Patrik,

I think the place to start is with the RCA plug. If you look at the diagram on page 2349, you will see that it is a two core cable with an overall screen. One of the cores and the screen is grounded. I remember Ron posting about exactly how it is constructed, I tried a search but didn't find it. I think the two cores are red and blue? Ron has often posted on how to clean the plug, you will easily find that. Make sure that both the grounded core and and the screen are well connected to the outer case of the RCA plug. You should get continuity between the centre core and the screen - probably no more than a couple of ohms or so. Maybe you've done that already? Keep us informed, I'm sure you will get there!

Edit - Looking through some previous posts, it seems the two cores are red and green and the red core is grounded.

Norman.