"Gripper Arms", both RockOla and AMi/Rowe--pot metal

[Ron Rich]

John,
The "rest position" for the gripper is "over the record basket, ready to pick-up a record". No, your gripper is the same, as are all the rest.
As for checking "Micro Switches", read our FAQ's section. Do not "power up" until you can move the gripper assembly using the shaft on the motor !! Don't know that song by that title ?? Ron Rich

[johnlivo]

Finally getting close to attempting to power up my 1958 Rockola 1458 for the first time. But here is my question for today.

The Gripper Motor and gear coming from it, should I be able to turn it by hand? Mine does not move at all. Very solid. No movement at all when I attempt to turn them by hand.

If it should be able to be moved by hand, I guess I can assume that either the motor or the gripper assembly is frozen somewhere?

[johnlivo]

Thanks Ron. Strange, I could not see your response to my previous questions, until I sent this new one now.

Anyway, I guess I will read your description on how to unfreeze the gripper another ten times until I understand better what I need to do.

Because when I read it I get the impression that all the work that I am supposed to do to free it up is on the round sickle shaped Gripper Arm (19853) itself, but that to me appears to be of one solid rounded piece.

Still I can't help but wondering if the motor also isn't frozen, because that first big gear, the Gripper Shaft Gear (17470) is where I try to turn, and it won't budge at all.

Where as the large metal cylinder at the base of the Gripper Arm gives the impression that it might be free and able to move in and out if the rest of the system were to start moving it.

Ok, I will start reading again!

[johnlivo]

Ok, I figured Out why I didn't see your last post, I was looking on the first page of our thread, and I see now there are two pages.

[johnlivo]

Ok, so I removed the Gripper Motor from the jukebox, and found the motor appears to be frozen. Tonight I will try to get the moving again with a friend.

I then tried to turn the Drive shaft by gripping the Gripper Shaft Gear. It was just about frozen, so I started applying along the shaft here and there with Tri-Flo and it didn't take too much time to free it up, but it will only turn part way because one of the metal pins on the drive shaft assembly slightly bumps into one of the groove ends on the outer Geneva Gripper.

I am guessing that the pin should slide into this groove on the Geneva Gripper, and then turn it I guess, but it only butts into it and as a result the drive shaft won't turn any further than 1/8 to 1/4 turn, and not too much really happens.

But I guess slowly we are getting to the heart of the problem, and things are moving in the right direction. Just not sure what to do next with it, and would be very glad to get some advice.

I will also re-read your notes on freeing up a frozen gripper, as well as Mr. Know it All's notes on lubrication of a gripper, and see what else we can get freed up.

Thanks for listening and for your support!

[johnlivo]

Hi Ron,

Not sure if you had a chance to read my last entry or not, but would appreciate it when you have the time.

So, it is looking like I may have to remove the whole Gripper Unit Assembly completely.

As I described above the Drive shaft (with the Gripper Shaft Gear on the left side) is now somewhat free and turning, but the upper portion, those two Geneva Gears (Geneva Gripper Release, and Geneva Gripper Turn Over) and the big upper shaft I believe called the Trunion Shaft is completely frozen. I have been dripping in Tri-Flo in where I can, but I doubt much can really get in there along the full length of the Trunion Shaft.

The base of the Gripper Arm will move in and out about 1 or 2mm, and the other cylinder on the other side of it, the Gripper Arm Reversing Cam also will move in and out about 1 or 2mm.

I sure don't want to have to take this whole thing apart, because I am afraid I won't get it back together again in the proper order/alignment, but if that is the only way, I guess I have no other choice???

In your very first entry on Frozen Gripper arms, you talk about being sure to lube well between the "two upper gears". Are these the Geneva Grippers that you are referring to?

Well, thanks in advance for any help or suggestions you can offer.

John in Portland, OR

[Ron Rich]

Hi John,
I did read it, but don't have a RockOla book for reference-- The two gears I was speaking of are on the side away from the motor drive gear. -- Like I believe I stated, you can remove the outer gear--just be darn sure you put it back the same way-- At this point if you have the motor running, I would plug it in (Be SURE the fuse is correct !) without connecting it to the drive-- If it runs, connect it to the drive gear and see what happens--- Ron Rich

[johnlivo]

[Ron Rich]

John,
The two in the first pix, top side right--MUST "slip by" each other-- Ron Rich

[johnlivo]

So, a little update.

the drive shaft, the main shaft that runs from the gripper motor (on the left) over to the tone arm area (on the right) moves freely. That is old lube is not a restraint anymore. The Tri-flo really did it's job! But this shaft will only turn a small amount because the horizontal pins on the right end then bump into the two big gears, and those gears will not budge. It is clear that these pins need to fall into their proper slots as the drive shaft turns, and this is what I am sure makes the whole gripper assembly do it's magic.

But I am also concerned that those two big gears that turn and move everything aren't in their proper location. I have no idea of knowing if they are or not, but that is my impression since the horizontal pins that rotate on around in a circle that are on the drive shaft do not quite fit right into the open slot of the outer right gear.

And even if they did, that gear is so solid and won't move. I have tried to work in Tri-flo on the upper shaft the Trunion shaft as it is called, here and there wherever I see a space between these upper parts all along the length of the upper shaft, hoping that this will help to free up the Trunion shaft and those two big "gears" on the upper right portion of the gripper assembly, but so far they are not budging.

So, just to confirm Ron, you say I can remove this outer big Gear? Replacing it of course as it was originally located. Would the idea there be to try then to get more tri-flo into the problem area/ Trunion shaft/these two big gears area to hopefully free things up???

Going through the center of the upper shaft is the gripper arm and gripper arm reversing cam. These two now also are able to move in and out about 1/8", and as you said Ron have springs that pull them back in, and I can see that this is how the gripper arm is able grab, hold, and release the record.

So, more improvement there. But the final big battle is with the two big "gears" that need to rotate on this upper shaft, and move slide beside each other as you say Ron. Numbers 17, and 18 in the 3rd or last picture above. These are called the Geneva Grippers.

The outer one is held in place by two Allen screws (16). So are you suggesting that I remove this number 17/Geneva Gripper Release as it is called above then Ron??

I am also thinking to take a hair dryer to this upper shaft area for 20 or so minutes to see if that will help loosen it up as you guys suggested.

Well, trying to be as clear as I can on all of this. Thank you!

John

[johnlivo]

I have some great news! Some wonderful news! And it happened tonight just before I was going to bed at 11:30pm.

Actually, today was a rather low day with this old Jukebox (everything else that is really important in my life is going great and I thank God for that), because all the unknowns, and that ongoing challenge of those frozen two big gears. I kept thinking I would have to take it all apart, and that I would never be able to get it back together, and that probably these gears were jammed and damaged, and even though I have come so far, that in the end it might never actually play.

But I kept squirting in Tri-flo here and there, and kept trying to move it somehow but to no avail. But before going to bed I read once more through the variety of notes that you all had written to me, and I thought well, let's hit it with my wife's hair dryer for 20 minutes before I go to bed, and see if it won't at least budge.

Boy, was I surprised after just 10 or 15 minutes with the hair dryer on it to see the whole mechanism come to life and do it's magic right before my eyes as I rolled the main gear in my left hand!!!!

So, even though it's very late and I have a very full day tomorrow helping at our church and such, I just really wanted to thank you Ron, and MB9513 for all your help, and advice along the way.

Still a number of things to do this week, but I am thinking in the next 10 days I will probably finally be powering her up!

Only bad news is that in the future when I want to listen to a record I will have to borrow my wife's hair dryer every time.

Ha Ha Ha

Ok, Good night guys! Thanks so much Ron!

John

[Ron Rich]

Hi John,
Glad you got it !! Now flood it with 20 wt. oil--and play it at least 100 times a day, for the next month, or it will re-freeze, and you will need that hairdryer ! (Actually, it's my guess, that you cooda left that Tri-Flow sink in, over night and wound up with the same results-- ) Ron Rich

[johnlivo]

Thanks Ron! You are reading my mind. I was going to ask you this morning if I should now re-lubricate it with the 3 in 1 20 wt. motor oil.

Actually, after it cooled down again it did once again get sluggish and a little hard to turn through part of it's sequence. But I hit it once again everywhere with the Tri-Flo, and now one day later it is still moving quite smoothly.

One question though. on the upper thick shaft (1. Trunion Shaft ) on the end there is a very small opening in the center tip of this black shaft that could be an oil hole. I stuck a wire in there just to see where it goes, and how big it is or what is on the other side of the opening, and it seems quite empty and hollow in there.

Wonder if that is an oil hole for this upper part of the gripper assembly, or just a ventilation hole maybe. Looking at the photo and the access this little hole gives to much of the biggest problem areas of the gripper assembly, you would think that this must be it's function, but Rockola doesn't give any info on Lubrication in the manual, and even Dr. Know it all does not seem to mention this little hole in his detailed article on Rockola Lubrication in his book on page. 30.

John

[johnlivo]

P.S. I was putting the tri-flo in everywhere I could for about 3 days, and I think that was helping, but since the mechanism never really opened up for me, it was limited. The hair dryer enabled everything to fully open up and even turn upside down, so that gravity could then take the tri-flo in the lower areas as well, that were now turned over and on the top, in this way places deep in that it couldn't reach before. For example, that shaft at the bottom of the gripper arm, I was only seeing about 2mm of it and thought that was good, until it all actually started moving and fully appearing, and I realized, "Wow! That thing is about 2 inches long!" It was all locked up and locked away.

John

[Ron Rich]

Hi John
Got a hole--put oil in it--can't hurt ?? I dono-- Ron Rich