model b on freeplay

[vipertblck]

bought this model b and it was already on free play. thought it'd be fun to switch it back to coin op for a lil while. went inside and the average, "arm bent and arms all flipped" on that rotating piece in the credit/cancel assembly (can't think of it's correct name) wasn't the case. I was 1)glad to see this cuz I read it can burn out the latch bar assembly (not sure what or where that is), and 2)confused, because how is the box on free play?

if there's another alternative way than the one described, then great! hopefully I don't have to worry about burning anything out. my next question is, how? what alternative ways are there, that I could search for in my box, that would allow it to be on free play?

thanks in advance for all the help

[Ron Rich]

There is NO "good way", nor "safe way" to accomplish this on ANY coin-op. phonograph, of any brand, unless it was designed for it. Later phono's built in the 70's had an option, but by then the "latch bar solenoid" had been eliminated. The only safe way, IMHO, is to install an electronic "adaptor", that accomplishes this with a safety factor. The "plug-in- plugs" sold for this are, IMHO, NOT safe ! ( Yes-- I sell the electronic type ). As for how someone's done this on your phono--some how, somewhere, pins 1 and 6 on the pricing unit plug are "jumped". You will need to find this jumper, and remove it ! The latch bar solenoid on Seeburgs and RockOla's is designed for "INTERMITTENT" duty, not continuous duty. The coils used by WurliTzer, are, IF, the switches are working correctly, a constant duty coil. Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

Aug 17, 2018 12:33:38 GMT Ron Rich said:

There is NO "good way", nor "safe way" to accomplish this on ANY coin-op. phonograph, of any brand, unless it was designed for it. Later phono's built in the 70's had an option, but by then the "latch bar solenoid" had been eliminated. The only safe way, IMHO, is to install an electronic "adaptor", that accomplishes this with a safety factor. The "plug-in- plugs" sold for this are, IMHO, NOT safe ! ( Yes-- I sell the electronic type ). As for how someone's done this on your phono--some how, somewhere, pins 1 and 6 on the pricing unit plug are "jumped". You will need to find this jumper, and remove it ! The latch bar solenoid on Seeburgs and RockOla's is designed for "INTERMITTENT" duty, not continuous duty. The coils used by WurliTzer, are, IF, the switches are working correctly, a constant duty coil. Ron Rich

great info and help, thanks.  questions; for future reference on box's I come across, how does this electronic type adapter you sell, how does it work and where does it plug into?  where can I get more info on this.  on the pricing unit pins 1 & 6 are jumped you say, is that the plug/harness that goes from the "coin box" and plugs into the back of the credit/cancel box on the selection receiver?  if this is the case on mine, pins are jumped, is it still energizing this latch bar solenoid 100% duty cycle, the same as flipping the tabs and bending the ramp?

[Ron Rich]

It plugs into the larger plug--not the coin switch plug--electronically opens/ closes the circuit to the solenoid, as needed. Prevents solenoid from being energized for over 45 or so, seconds. Don't know where that plug was jumped--can be anywhere in the whole circuit--trouble shoot it with a meter--Does that solenoid energize when phono is powered ? If so, yep-- same as leaving any of the 6 switches in the closed position --
Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

Aug 17, 2018 17:13:36 GMT Ron Rich said:

It plugs into the larger plug--not the coin switch plug--electronically opens/ closes the circuit to the solenoid, as needed. Prevents solenoid from being energized for over 45 or so, seconds. Don't know where that plug was jumped--can be anywhere in the whole circuit--trouble shoot it with a meter--Does that solenoid energize when phono is powered ? If so, yep-- same as leaving any of the 6 switches in the closed position --
Ron Rich

so of the 2 plugs in the credit/cancel box, it's the one larger one right beside the 4 pin coin switch plug? your adapter plugs into there and then the plug and harness plugs into your adapter? I'll check with a meter, but where and what is this latch bar solenoid? 

also, the coin switch plug with 4 pins, is there anything in there I should check?

thanks again

[Ron Rich]

If one plug has 4 pins, and the other is the one that has a jumper between 1 and 6--what do you think. Do you have the service manual package for this phonograph ? If so, READ it, if not see our FAQ's page and purchase it. Also please read the "Newbies" post on that page-- Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

dug into this thing finally, the 8 pin plug in the backside of the cancel/credit unit, shows no sign of a jumper wire on pins 1 & 6, nor anywhere in there (with the metal cover removed, of course). pin 1 appears to be a white wire that goes into a rats nest of a harness, appearing factory. pin 6 is a red wire that goes to the same harness as the white one and get buried down by some snap switches. the 8 pin plug that goes up to the electical selector shows no signs of the harness being cut open or tape removed. I did come across this modification online though, may have to dig into my electrical selector itself to see if this is how the freeplay on my box is being performed....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRch0AzANwM

[Ron Rich]

Yep--many "ways" of doing this--IMHO all wrong in some respects-- ONLY SAFE way I know of is to spend the $ and get an electronic unit---
Use a meter to track down where this was done on your unit-- Are all of the rocker switches on the rotary credit switch flipped up--cancel ramp bent out of the way ? Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

no sir. all the rocker switches are in the down position, and the tab is not bent. as soon as the power is flipped I can see the solenoid move on the electrical selector. i'm guessing this means that it's energizing the solenoid as soon as the power is flipped on. also, once the power is on; the "select" light illuminates and it's ready for selections.

what do you charge for your electronic freeplay plug, and im assuming it works on the model c as well

thanks kevin

[Ron Rich]

Use your meter--with the power off--remove the larger plug from the CCU--check pins 1 and 6, on both the plug and socket-- they will show open in one direction and shorted in the other--that's the area they have modified. Contact me off list for info as to pricing--I don't "sell" on this forum. ([e-mail]) Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

with my meter set on resistance, pins 1 & 6 on the plug show ofl, as well as probing the socket. thought maybe I did it wrong so I checked it with continuity too, both were OFL still. i'd consider myself very "beginner" with electrical work, so I apologize I if i'm not understanding or doing it correctly

kevin

[vipertblck]

wanted to give an update on this, talked to a guy in Wisconsin and he said probe with continuity pin 1 on the 8-pin CCU plug, to ground, or pin 5. pin 5 is ground. on the plug gave nothing. did the same on the socked on the CCU unit, continuity! so pin 1 in the CCU is jumped to pin 5, ground. followed pin 1 and all the way on the bottom of it beneath the star wheel that rotates, pin 1 wire connects to a contact; and connected at that point was the jumper to ground. removed it and we're on coin play again!

[Ron Rich]

Cool-- didn't I give you Vern's number ? He is the gent that makes the FPA I sell !--(I forgot about pin 5 --That's why you should have read the schematic--sorry) Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

yes sir, got his number from you in a private message; just didn't clearify that here as nobody would have known what I was talking about. if I would have read the schematic, which I did look at it. I wouldn't even know what I was trying to see. he explained that pin 5 is a ground, which is the same as just taking the probe to any ground on the machine. once I knew and realized this, it made sense that pin 1 should NOT have continuity with ground, unless the unit has the latch bar activated. slowly, but surely it's making sense piece by piece.

thanks again
kevin

[Ron Rich]

Hi Kevin,
Hope you told him "hi" from me--haven't spoken to him in awhile--
Ron Rich