Completely lost ... need advice on buying a jukebox please!

[xtal01]

So, let me start by saying I know absolutely nothing about jukeboxes.  I was probably a teen the last time I played one (back in the late 70's).

So, my wife is turning 40, she put up living with me taking 5 years to build a house (first three we froze in an old RV), she was paralyzed from the shoulders down in a diving accident when she was 12 yet she still works full time and directs a community chorus.

She has always wanted a jukebox (and honestly so have I) so time to start looking.

She has two requests ... she wants to see the records select and play ... and she wants if possible (I don't know how realistic this is ... did see one on youtube working)  a remote like she remembers as a kid on each table at the pizza place.

So, where do I start??

I did a quick search on Craigs List and Facebook Marketplace .... WOW ... $300 to $10,000! I don't understand why such a wide spread in price.

I watched a few videos on youtube ... showed finished working ones but no real advice.

Can anyone give me any advice or help?

She was thinking a Wurlitzer but I am thinking a Seeburg (I also see a number of AMI's).

I saw a few off brands but I want to be able to get parts for it.

The only ones I see with remotes (like on a table) are the Seeburg's.

I just can't seem to find any info on the difference of the 100, 160, 200 ....

And o all work with the remote units or do you need a special adapter or ?

And maybe the Wurlitzer or other brands do have remote units ... I just don't see then.

I am completely lost, can anyone help give me a push in the right direction.

Thanks .... Mike

[Ron Rich]

Hi Mike,
OK--let me start off by admitting that I prefer Seeburgs. So I'll just hit one question about the others. All US built coin operated phono's had "remote options"--these are usually called "Wall Boxes". Seeburgs built till about the mid 50's needed no "options" to operate their wall box. After that time it became an (extra charge) option. The item is referred to as a "stepper", or "Remote Controlled Stepper Unit" (RCSU).
Seeburgs 100 selection series phono's all have a mechanical selection system. They then came with a 200, electronic, tube type, selection system. Later this was reduced to the same system, but only 160 selections. All of the previous systems had "visible mechanisms". Along with the 200 electronic systems, a 100 model was usually available. Look at our FAQ's section for the late Tony Millers site info--he has the best photos of almost all models, and a slight "write-up on them. Good luck--you WILL have fun !! Ron Rich

[xtal01]

WOW ... I have learned more tonight then in the past week of searching!

I didn't even know the # was the number of songs it will play.

So, what is the cut off date for units with the stepper installed as standard equipment?

How can I tell if a unit after this date has a stepper unit in it?

Can I add a stepper unit? Is there only one or different stepper for different models?

Also ... should I look for an older mechanical unit or a tube unit ... and why?

I am a machinist by trade so I understand most machines.

I am no expert but pretty good with a meter if I have a schematic to follow.

I have a tube tester ... I keep a few old radios going (someone smarter then I recapped them for me).

Thanks so very much !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike

[juke46]

Mike,

We hope you find the machine that you and your wife love and enjoy! Ron Rich has amazing knowledge of just about everything jukebox and Seeburgs most of all. He has written books for maintaining and repairing Seeburgs. They are very helpful books and I refer to them whenever I fool around with a Seeburg. My belief is Seeburg made the most reliable machines ever built. Thanks to Ron there is a lot of information available, now, that people like me can understand to maintain and repair them. To me, the most important thing for owning one is never leave credit on them. The keyboard latch coil was designed for intermittent use and not to be energized for long periods of time. They will get very hot and self destruct. We have seventeen machines and ten of them are 45 RPM machines and six of those are Seeburgs. I try to do the prescribed maintenance and they just keep on working.

We like the Seeburg R model's appearance best. The electronic (Tormat) selection system on the later model Seeburgs just seems to work forever. One Seeburg That I would avoid is the L-100, I believe from 1957. Apparently it was Seeburg's first try at printed circuits! It took a long time to fix cracked circuit board tracks and I did not keep that machine. We have a Wurlitzer from 1957 and it is a challenge when it malfunctions. Some of the Rockola machines such as our 1478 model are nice but when the pinbank (mechanical memory) needs cleaned it is a much more difficult chore (at least for me) as compared to a Seeburg pinbank. Anna and I use and enjoy all of our machines! They, I think, do better when played regularly. Have "jukebox fun"!

[Ron Rich]

Thanks for the kind words-- On your Seeburgs with a latch bar solenoid-- easy to plug in an electronic solenoid protector--and WELL worth the money, as you will never have a fire using it ! (Watch out--the guy that makes the "cheaper, plug in single unit", does not provide enough protection, for the solenoid, IMHO --and as far as "cheaper"--it ain't much !!)(yes--I sell them, and have for at least 35 years--never seen one fail ). Ron Rich

[xtal01]

Well I definitely found the right place to be!

I will definitely look to pick up maintenance books on this since I do all my own work.

So are you saying you like the electronic selector better then the mechanical ones?

If I find a late 50's set, can you add the stepper controller to them?

If you can add the step controller, is there only one or a number of models?

From a quick search on ebay, I see "wall o matic 100" and "wall o matic 200" . Do all 100's work with all 100 Seeburg models and all 200's work with all 200's or do some work with mechanical and some electrical selectors or

Thanks .... Mike

[Ron Rich]

Mike,
Which "place" is "the right place to be"--I see the same post in 2 places ---
All Seeburgs up to the late 70's are able to operate a wall box/stepper combo. 100 select mechanical models all had a stepper installed. Stepper became optional about 1957--can be installed in any model. 100/160/200 steppers, work with any of those wall boxes, except the (1962-up) SC models. 100 wall boxes will work with any phonograph--160 wall boxes will work with 100 phono's- but you won't be able to select but 100 selections ( and the page numbering system will need to be changed) 160's will work with 200 phono's, only 160 selections cn be made.

[xtal01]

Can't two places be the right place to be? The internet lets us all be at a bunch of places at the same time :-)

Really, after a week of searching it looks like here and the yahoo Seeburg group are the only places to find information.

Anyay .. thanks so much!

So, I am thinking my first step is to find which unit we like.

It will definitely be a 50's unit ... want it to play 45's.

I am not sure if 100, 160 or 200 matters that much to us (obviously 200 would be better just because I would not have to change out records as often).

It looks like 100 and 200 wall boxes are about the same for availability and cost.

If it is an early 100 then I don't need to worry about stepper controller since as you point out it is already built in.

If I find a later unit, I will need advice on controllers .. on ebay I see SSU2, SSU3, SSU4, RCSU4, RCSU5 TSU7, ...

I have no idea what the difference in the units are and which work with which jukebox and wall units.

I am also still just a bit confused as to which is "better" (and maybe neither) or which has more benefits, the mechanical or the electrical selector units.

Thanks again .... Mike

[Ron Rich]

Hi Mike,
Yep--I see your point--looks like the "internet" is the correct place for you and this question.
As for which is best for reliability, the mechanical type have the worst reliability, but can be serviced by "non-electrical" people, while all of the electronic models need (IMHO) people that have an understanding of electronics.
As far as Seeburg products go, did you look at the late Tony Millers web site ? If read carefully, it should answer 99.9999% of the questions you repeatedly have axked --- Ron Rich

[jeffinmn]

I was in a similar situation to you in 2002. I was in my mid 40s and remembered a jukebox from my teens at a youth center I occasionally went to. I always liked electro-mechanical devices. At that time I already had a few pinball machines that I kept working myself I was also a collector of late 1930s Zenith Radios, all of which I replaced the old wax capacitors and filter capacitors. Still at that time I knew nothing about jukeboxes.

I went to a local seller that sold pinball machines and jukeboxes and he had a Seeburg HF-R100 commonly called a Seeburg R. It was in nice condition with the original chrome in decent shape. He had his electronics guy replace the old capacitors in the amp and selection receiver and also clean the selection pin bank on the back. He took the back off so I could confirm this and someone did a nice, neat job on it. The mechanism had been cleaned and lubricated and worked well. Best of all it sounded great. It had the Pickering 345-03d cartridge. I really fell in love with the sound and look of the Seeburg R. I paid $3500 for it.

Since you are new to this and don't know how to replace capacitors I recommend that you buy one that's already been worked on like I did. Like the poster above I'll also recommend the R. Many consider it to be the best sounding of the 1950s jukeboxes because it has 5 speakers in it. There are two 12" woofers, a 5" tweeter and two 8" mid-range speakers, one on each side. It holds 50 records for 100 selections. I had lots of 45s so getting records was not necessary. I bought the service manual for it from Victory Glass so that I would be able to repair it should that become necessary. Having the manual is a must.

After a few months I found that I wanted a jukebox that would hold more records so I bought a Seeburg V200 which holds 100 records for 200 selections. This one was original, barely working and needed to be gone through. I think I paid $1000 for it. I bought the service manual and a capacitor kit for the amp and selection receiver and recapped it myself. I also cleaned and lubricated the mech. At that time the Pickering cartridge was still available so I got one too. I also needed to get a front glass since it was missing. I was very pleased that Victory Glass sold reproduction glass that is curved and has High Fidelity on the glass just like the original. I like the look of the V200 especially with the rotating title drum. I will say that though the V200 sounds really good, the R sounded just a bit better with more treble, probably due to having a separate tweeter.

Last summer I needed some money so I sold the R to man with two teenagers and a couple of pinball machines and a pool table in his basement. I wasn't using the R much, so I was glad it went to a good home where it would be appreciated. I was sad to let it go but I felt good about who I sold it to. I removed the back door so he would have a little easier time moving it and went to his house to set it up and make sure it worked properly. I sold it for about $3500. The ad to sell it on Craigslist was there for about 6 months. I wasn't in a rush and wanted to get most of my money out of it that I paid for it. I also included a remote wall box that I purchased soon after I got the R. the new owner was thrilled to get it. I don't believe jukeboxes are as popular as they were some years ago.

Good luck in your search. Rob and Ron are very helpful and know so much about these machines. This is a great place to come for advise and learning. I'll put in a recommendation to also buy Ron's book on Seeburg jukeboxes if you buy one. It has many tips for keeping your machine running that I never saw anywhere else.

[xtal01]

Thanks again so much !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I have a much better understanding of what I am looking for.

I will have to see what comes up for sale but I am thinking and R100 ..... G100 ... V (or VL) 200 ... in this order would be our preferences.

When I find one for sale, I am sure I will have more questions.

Thanks again .... Mike

[Ron Rich]

Mike,
One word of advise---
Do not take the word of any "seller"--anywhere ! I see stuff that the seller claims to be "Restored", that is so un-like it originally was, when it was new, that I have a hard time believing it ever did come out of the factory. Some of this is ignorance on the sellers part, but IMHO, most of it is just "plain ol' lies"---. I find that if the seller states "re-furbished", in most cases, it's more "honest"-- Ron Rich

[xtal01]

Thanks! I do get the feeling it is like buying a used car ... buyer beware.

I want something that is as close to original as possible.

I would rather pay a few $'s more then spend my money on junk.

I also realize you can spend a fortune if you get into things like re-chroming.

I have learned it is usually better to pay a few $'s more upfront rather then buy junk and trying to rebuild it.

Thanks .... Mike

[Ron Rich]

Hi Mike,
Sounds as if you "have Learnt" !!
Ron Rich