M100B latch bar solenoid

[vipertblck]

Looks burned up to me, Wadda ya think?  If u move a pin in the pinbank, I can get it work scan and play.  If I push the latch solenoid all the way in so the plunger is inside the solenoid, the keys will stay held and I can make a selection.  Throws me off is there’s one wide that’s taped off as you can see on the solenoid.  The wire end itself into the harness is also taped.  Is there a way
This could have worked with this solenoid wire disconnected and taped off?


kevin

Attachments:

[robnyc]

Yep, cooked. Once all else is working, you can select w/out the solenoid by pressing both letter & number at the same time.

When these and other coils short they can take out the main tran. That is why all outputs from it should be fused.

I fuse the following sources from the main tran thus:

25 VAC: 4 amp-slo
150 VAC (thyratron tube plates) 1 amp-fast
5 VAC (decorative lights) 3 or 4 amp-slo, you can use less if only a few lights such as a 201..
6.3 Volt tube heaters, I use 5 amp-slow The HFMA1 draws a just over 3 amps for heaters.

RobNYC

[vipertblck]

thanks rob,

any idea why the one wire would be cut & taped off from the solenoid? it's obviously burned up right now but the lady I got this from was playing it a month ago and obviously was making selections. is there some way this could have worked with the wire disconnected like this, by pushing a letter and number at the same time? when I manually move a pin to play, (along with sometimes pushing down on the play control relay in the step switch & relay assy), it will eventually scan and play that record. it's quiet with the volume all the way up, so amp likely has to be re-capped, but there is music coming from the speaker, so all the circuitry is correct at least!

if these things were capable of taking selections with a burnt out latch solenoid by pushing letter/number at the same time, i'll have to try that and see if it works

kevin

[Ron Rich]

Kevin,
READ what Rob wrote--YES--pressing down a number and letter, at the same time will cause a selection to be made. The latch bar solenoid just "locks down" the keys -- it has no other use, and is needed only so the "publick don't getz comfuzzed !" I strongly suggest that ALL latch bar Seeburgs, have an added, ELECTRONIC, "free play unit" installed, to prevent latch bar solenoids from catching fire !
Also--on "fusing"-- The M-100 and HF 100 series phonos, when using a WSR-5, have paper markings as to fuse sizes-- The "main" fuse, if only one display florescent lamp is used, should be a 3 A SB. If the pilasters are also lit, and motorized, use a 5 ASB. The CCU fuse, is marked "2ASB". --this is too high and will allow SAU coils to burn up--MAX on this fuse is 1.6 --I attempt to use a 1, or slightly higher value.  Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

yup, it worked. holding letter and number together flips the pin for whatever selection you do. now the only thing left is getting the mechanism to start scanning when this happens. if I push and hold the play control relay it will scan and pickup the record and eventually "latch" the relay and operate as it should. have to skim back through the manual, thought I saw somethin in there for the troubleshooting section or picture diagram that showed some contacts in the mechanism for that circuit that I might wanna check...once I get this all figured out all we need is a new latch bar solenoid, and some amp work!!

kevin

[Ron Rich]

Kevin,
Push out a "flock of pins" If the Play Control relay now energizes, you have dirty contacts on the washers that slide when pin is out--If NO PC relay--check the single GM style plug connecting the SAU, and ES-- it's open--- Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

ron,

done that. pushing a bunch of pins doesn't get it to scan. GM plug? is that the single wire connecter that just kinda hangs there in the back? push and twist connection I think it is? have to double check when I get home tonight

kevin

[Ron Rich]

Kevin,
YEP--- Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

messed with it once I got home, seems if I push enough pins it'll eventually start scanning. sometimes scans all the way and picks up record to play, sometimes it scans and in the task of picking the record up it stops, push the play control relay and hold it and it eventually stays and keeps going on it's own. seems to me it's just a dirty pinbank based on what I've seen and found so far. think i'm gonna try cleaning this myself. is there a way to test or check all the coils either before I take it off and apart, or while it's all apart?

kevin

[Ron Rich]

Yep classic dirty SAU--Sure--meter them, or put an Analog, damped, amp meter, on the line when you fire the coils--each one should draw 1.5 amps for just under a second.  Ron Rich

[vipertblck]

Dec 17, 2018 14:30:35 GMT Ron Rich said:

Kevin,
READ what Rob wrote--YES--pressing down a number and letter, at the same time will cause a selection to be made. The latch bar solenoid just "locks down" the keys -- it has no other use, and is needed only so the "publick don't getz comfuzzed !" I strongly suggest that ALL latch bar Seeburgs, have an added, ELECTRONIC, "free play unit" installed, to prevent latch bar solenoids from catching fire !
Also--on "fusing"-- The M-100 and HF 100 series phonos, when using a WSR-5, have paper markings as to fuse sizes-- The "main" fuse, if only one display florescent lamp is used, should be a 3 A SB. If the pilasters are also lit, and motorized, use a 5 ASB. The CCU fuse, is marked "2ASB". --this is too high and will allow SAU coils to burn up--MAX on this fuse is 1.6 --I attempt to use a 1, or slightly higher value.  Ron Rich

wanted to make sure we're lookin and talking about the same correct fuses here and their correct "F" location 

1-main fuse for the lighting should be 3 or 5 amp depending on the layout; this is fuse F1

2-CCU fuse for the pinbank should be 1.6 amp and is fuse F4

are both these fuses ok to be slow-blow/time delay?

[vipertblck]

got a new solenoid. it's the sam;,except the terminals are on the opposite side, no big deal. one question, are these solenoids directional/polarity sensitive? meaning is there a certain arrangement for the wires to get hooked up, or just put either one on either terminal?


thanks
kevin

[Ron Rich]

Hi Kevin,
F-3 and F-4, are ( got the Manual ?) "slo-blo"--others are fast blow.
Solenoid is non directional. Ron Rich