Record rejects as needle lands

[Ron Rich]

The record rejecting just as the needle lands problem, can happen, MECHANICALLY, in ALL model types, due to a clutch area, problem, or a "sticky plunger" inside the Detent/trip coil, broken core stop, inside the Detent/trip coil (See my "Seeburg Mechanism Guide", and/or "MicroLog Trouble Shooting Guide" {If a MicroLog model}, for details.-- need a copy, contact me at :[e-mail]). It can also be caused electrically, by several different things, depending on which selection system that model was equipped with.

You will need to differentiate this from an electrical problem,  which can differ in the 4 different selection systems used. The easiest way to do this, in all 4 systems, is to "listen to what the mechanism is telling you" (this is NOT true on the SMC system  ! No mechanical, "popularity meter" { "pop meter"}) . Listen to the "pop meter", If you hear a "double pulse"/"click", to that meter, this tells you the problem is mechanical. If not, double check this, by holding down on the Detent Release Lever (called out in some manuals as the "release lever", only)*, as the record is ramped up. If the record does not reject, mechanically, you have proven the problem is electrical ( you probably will "feel" the Detent coil attempting to lift that lever).  On the original SAU system, the following can be at fault. Switch "adjustments", Rear contact block ("frog",under the SAU--or out of it's "holder", which is usually caused by moving the phono without proper preparations) adjustments , mal adjusted C-SC contacts, or a "short", in the reject circuit-- One the Tube Type TMU models, a bad tube (2050, and/or, 12AX7). Mal adjusted C-SC switches. Defective electronics in the TSR/TSU/TCC. In the LPC-1 on up, including the "100 selection" models, built after the "U-100" model, thru the SMC models, Switch adjustments on the mech (formerly called C-SC- now re- named, differently for different models-see service manual (!), amplifier relay "stuck". On the "solid state systems"  defective electronics (RARE, except on the SCC-1, -3, and-4, Code A units). On the "MicroLog" system unit, DCC's-- same as the SCC units, except that the amp relay may have been swapped for the wrong one ??  On the SMC, models, never happens, unless as above on, "all" units  (LOL !)(C-SC--now called "1M5 - 1M6" are poorly "adjusted"). See the correct Service Manual for your model ! Ron Rich

* If you don't know what the Detent/trip release lever is, see the post, on page two of this thread, for the scan added by brnhard.

[tonyj]

Hi Ron:

Recently got an SPS-160 and this is my first Seeburg player.  I've recapped the DCC and amp and started going through the mech over the weekend and cleaning and lubing it.  I'm currently working with it out of the cabinet hooked to the DCC on a table and seem to have this problem with rejecting and the double pulse on the popularity solenoid on one direction only.  Using the "battery trick" and starting the scan, the mech will load and play every record when traveling from "left to right" (as you have the mech side of the rack in front of you). I have to manually trip the reject cycle as I don't have the amp hooked up and believe it needs to be there for the reed switch.  When all the "left to right" selections have been played, the travel reverses and in the "right to left" direction - and that's when it appears to load and reject the record and move on to the next, and also get the double popularity solenoid action.  Occasionally after doing this a few times, it will not detent at what should be the next selection and continue scanning to the left and I can hear the trip solenoid buzzing.  I've got the manuals from Victory and purchased your guides from you a while ago, but still am a little lost.   I thought it might be something with the lubrication or cleaning still, but wasn't sure since it seems to function fine in one direction.  Thanks!

Edit: As far as an electrical reason, I was thinking of looking at what switching was different based on direction of travel. The reversing switch seems to be wired to the motor only which leaves the pickup cradle switch I believe.  Trying to see where that is connected to as well on the schematic (P1101?) and haven't found that yet.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Tony,
This is strictly a mechanical problem--yes--amp needs to be plugged in to operate the "reject" circuit, in this model ( Read the Seeburg Mechanism Guide, ---sequence of operation--- you purchased from me--thanks !) The usual cause of this symptom is a frozen (to the pin) clutch fork. I also have seen a loose bearing block in the clutch fork cause this, also the detent lever roller working loose from the lever, and the clutch thrust bearing adjustment, being out of spec. Ron Rich

[tonyj]

Thank you - I will check that out later tonight. As far as the cradle switch, I'm thinking that it is used to indicate which side of the record is "now playing"?

[Ron Rich]

Tony,You are welcome--
Yes--your "thinking" is correct--that switch lights either the 1, or 2, in the selection now playing display. Ron Rich

[junkinbarry]

Great information here!!
I'm working on a friends Seeburg 201. Recapped the amp, TSR6 select receiver and pulse amp. At first all was well, but after a few days, I have the same symptom, but in both directions. My trip solenoid engages as soon as the 2050 tube warms up. I can manually get a record into play position, remove the 2050 trip tube, turn the machine on and the record plays fine. While playing I can install the 2050. As soon as the tube warms, the trip solenoid engages. Not sure what to try next. Thanks in advance, JUNKINBARRY

[junkinbarry]

Forgot to mention in my previous post; I have checked the tone arm and manual reject switch with an ohm meter and both are fine. Waiting on 201 service manual to check cam switches.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Barry,
Make a selection, allow the mech to Detent, shut off power, remove 2050, remove Mechanism cable, re-install 2050, an allow it to warm up, while watching 2050. If you see the "purple" in the tube then, the problem is either the tube itself, or the electronics--not the mech switching. Ron Rich

[junkinbarry]

Thanks Ron,
I'll try that next!
Junkinbarry

[junkinbarry]

I just got back to the 201 today. Got a record into playing position, turned power off, unplugged mech cable and 2050. I turned the machine on plugged up the 2050 and carefully watched while it warmed up. No purple pulse. I tried turning the shop lights off just to make sure, no purple. Back to checking switches. Thanks for the help. Junkinbarry.

[Ron Rich]

Barry,
On the 201, did you check to see if all "grounds" to the mech/keyboard are good ?? I assume this is not an "oiling" problem ?
Ron Rich

[junkinbarry]

I have not. Are you referring to chassis ground?

[junkinbarry]

The 2050 fires when the P655 plug is connected to the 501 socket. Tried to check smoothing rectifier with an ohm meter. Has same resistance forward or reverse bias.

[Ron Rich]

Barry,
Replace it with a 1N4004 or better--see what happens ??
Ron Rich

[junkinbarry]

Thanks Ron. Will do.