WARNING on, Seeburgs using "Latch bar solenoids"

[Ron Rich]

WARNING, on all Seeburgs ( and some Rock-Ola's), which use the Guardian built solenoid, to lock the selection keys.  That solenoid is NOT designed for "constant use" !
Also, remember a "Jukebox" was never designed to "play for free" -- therefore if one "jury-rigs" a coin op phono to play for free, and it is the type that use the above solenoid--one has a potential ( and OFTEN, a true) fire HAZARD !! The ONLY safe way to "free play" these phono's is to use an electronic "free play unit/adapter"*, that automatically, turns off the power to that solenoid, at ANY TIME, it has been powered over 45 seconds !  (This is not true for the Guardian (or other brand) built coils, used in WurliTzer phono's, as they have a constant duty, hold circuit). Ron Rich

EDIT: I have mixed feelings, as this may not prevent a fire--but so far has proven to do so, in my experience.  Add a 3 amp fast blow fuse onto the "hot side"  of the cable going to the solenoid--do this right at the solenoid.  Another factor to consider--make sure the 10 watt, 100 ohm resistor is there (falls off on some models), is, connected still, and good !

* as far as the "low priced plug in" free play adapters, despite what the seller states, they are NOT safe-- in my humble opinion ! In cases they can, and do, leave the solenoid energized---

[babycat]

indeed. i run my LPC-1 using good old fashioned quarters, it still takes me back to my early jukebox encounters of my Dad giving me some coins to do my thing. but here at home, i can hear the solenoid buzzing, waiting for my selection, wanting to let go of the latch, so i try to make sure not to leave the machine waiting for selections.

does the LS2 use the Guardian solenoid? i just wheeled one into my recording studio, and it is loaded up with credits. after maybe 30 plays, it still awaits a selection. i don't hear the solenoid buzzing, but perhaps it is better isolated. i haven't even figured out yet how to get near it. gotta scare up a manual...

[Ron Rich]

Yep--waz used up to the LS-3 in 160 selection machines, and up thru the 100-78-D, in 100 selection phono's --- A free play adaptor is available for all models, EXCEPT the LPC's as plugs are not available for them-- Ron Rich

[e093116]

Ron,

Thanks for the heads up.   My LS1 was on "free play" when I purchased it and I never really looked into what was going on until reading this thread.

Of course I found some changes, the biggest one being that the detent lever is missing from the credit wheel in the UDPU6.

I obtained a "core" replacement unit from my 96 year old operator friend on Tuesday this week, and it works ok, I get 3 credits when I deposit a quarter, but when I make a selection all three credits are removed.  There is some discussion on the subtract 3 switch and shift solenoid in the manual, but not much is presented in theory of operation and/or how to turn on/off the subtract 3 function.

Can you comment on what the design intent of the subtract 3 feature is and how to revert back to single credit subtraction?  I'd like to be able to get 3 plays per quarter...

Thanks as always for your assistance.

Bill 

[Ron Rich]

Bill,
That info is 'splained in detail, in the I & O manual--Ron Rich

[e093116]

Thanks Ron.

I initially reviewed just the UDPU section (it was a late night the other night). Last night I found that all of the pricing tabs on the TES were set to album pricing, moving them back to the left took care of subtracting 3 from the credit wheel. Also found the album & single lamp wiring was all dorked up, I got that squared away too.

Can you comment on the popularity of "jukebox EPs" back in them olden days?  Were they frequently used?  Was all of this difficult for operators to manage?  It seems as though the phonographs carried a lot of technical/engineering cost/complexity "overhead" to play at two different speeds as well as pricing levels.  I've only seen jukebox EPs at one record store, and they just had a small box and nothing there I was interested in.  I'd actually like to find some that I'd listen to, just to be able to exercise the full functionality of the phonograph!

Bill

[Ron Rich]

Hi Bill,
Funny, when you read things, it becomes clear--- "EP's" (extended play 33 rpm)were long before my time, as were little LP's (LLP's)-- Both were "premium priced" selections. I worked in the industry starting just prior to the LS-1 being the current model- LLP's were still sold, but were becoming much less popular. In order to run you phonograph at 33-1/3 rpm you need an Autospeed. This was standard on the LS-1, but not too dependable, unless a Code C version. Pricing, as you found out, did not mater--speed only was set by the Autospeed, while pricing was set by the TES. Ron Rich

[babycat]

is there any way to 'clear' credits from the LS-2? i must've played 60 selections on it and the solenoid stays on. previous owner said he 'loaded up a bunch of credits'... but i'm starting to wonder...



as an aside, i'm a big fan of the Jukebox EP / Little LP format. i like the ones intended for lounge - Sinatra, Dean Martin, Martin Denny, the Enoch Light stuff is great - his Command label are some of the best sounding records going! the little blue title strips always look great, some with album images on them. as Ron mentioned, they declined in popularity pretty quickly, but i'm amazed to have found some going up to 1976! it might have only been the one guy who ran Little LP on behalf of the major labels at that point. i've found a handful of the nuggets of my youth in the 70's - Neil Young, Led Zeppelin, Todd Rundgren, Grateful Dead, etc. people trip out when they see albums on my juke!

[Ron Rich]

Max number of credits on any Seeburg "accumulating" pricing unit built since 1955, is 31. You have a problem unit-- Ron Rich

[e093116]

Babycat,

As Ron says, 31 credits is the max...if you pull the cover off the "mechanical" side of the UDPU and have a copy of the manual, you should be able to figure out the problem.

One unit of mine was missing the subtract detent arm (and had a bunch of wiring changes), I got a new one. Another one had a broken spring under the credit wheel, fortunately it was broken very near the center of the spring, and I was able to reform/reattach the spring only losing about 1/2" of spring material.

If you're lucky, you have something stuck and just need to free it up to get the mechanical portion moving again (I like $0 repairs).

Good luck.

Bill

[jeffinmn]

I have a Seeburg V200 with the standard dual pricing unit. One credit for a nickel, 2 for a dime, and 6 for a quarter. My understanding is that the maximum number of credits is 24 (6x4 quarters) but I could be wrong. Is it in fact 31 credits?

[Ron Rich]

Hi Jeff,
Well, I dono where you got the idea that you have a "standard" DCU-- The one you have is an "optional" unit. The "standard" unit in a V-200 is a DCU-1-L6. The "standard" unit in a VL, or, XV 200 is a DCU-1L-L6. You have a DCU-5-L6 with that (NON changeable*) pricing.  I believe the DCU's and DPU's had the ability for 31 credits--but not sure-- add some coins and tell us for sure !
* The DCU/DPU system was designed not to be flexible in pricing offered--"people" did hack them, which was somewhat of a one time only affair, that usually worked OK--

[robnyc]

Ron, Jeff, I checked the three DPU-1 units I have here 24 steps. I have a mix of DCU and DPU units but I've modded them to work interchangeably in VL-201 machines. Same 24 steps in a DCU10's in wallboxes.

The difference in pricing is determined by the credit/cancel coil stops.

For these old systems I simply put the quarter switch on the dime coil which is two steps from the factory. Some of the 200 wallboxes I received from Thorpe music in CA had been "modified for single step" according to a sticker inside. During wash and rehab i discovered this was done by restricting the travel of both credit and cancel solenoids by moving them down slightly and narrowing the two restricting fingers in the linkage on each. This seems to work OK so that is how they'll go out in a few weeks.

RobNYC

[jeffinmn]

Ron, I didn't describe clearly enough how I've got my V200 set up. It has the DCU1-L6. I have section A0-V0 of music set up with EPs which cost 15 cents each or 2 for 25 cents. In the manual it explains the operation of the DCU1-L6 first which is why I said it's the standard credit unit. The 3 wall boxes I have also have section 0 pricing to match the EP pricing of the V200. I think it's a really neat feature. Over the years I've collected around 20 EPs with pop and rock music including The Beatles, The Animals, The Partridge Family, Three Dog Night and others. 

[paradisecs]

Can you tap a push button on to the wires for the coin mechanism and run it out the back of the unit as a credit button? We do this on arcade machines all the time. What would happen if you hit the 31 credits and then added another?