No power to write out or scan switch

[Ron Rich]

Hi Rod,
I love that expression--"tarted up" -- not used here in the US, but well understood ! Ron Rich

[jukenorman]

Although you might have thought that "tarting up" would have stretched to servicing the motors? Then again, maybe not!
Norman.

[rockolarod]

    I shouldn't complain, it is in reasonable condition after more than 50 years. What I have done so far is very minor. First job was to unseize the record arm and lubricate it, then start to degrease the rest of the mechanical's. A few days spent trying to understand how everything works and sorting out the electrical problems. I had to make a new prop for the glass lid out of aluminium strip, which, without a pattern is close to original as I can tell by the parts diagram. 
 Made a new wooden bumper for the back which protects the end panel. If the motors don't cost a fortune to fix and it solves the problem I will have got away light.
 I do have one question. When I tested for power at the motors they were both live when the scan switch was operated. Am I right in thinking that when the carousel turns it locks out the record arm?
 Rod
    
  

[jukenorman]

The gripper jaws must be in the rest position over the carousel with the jaws open in order for the magazine motor to run - the position of the cam switches guarantee this. The gripper motor can run in both directions so the DC voltage is switched on both sides. When you operated the scan switch, you saw -28V at the magazine motor and since the other side is connected directly to ground, it should have run (faulty motor?). In that position, the gripper motor would have had -28V on both terminals so wouldn't run but explains why you saw voltage. You can follow how the voltages are routed in the schem-a-grams in the manual.
Norman.

[rockolarod]

Well it's been an interesting morning.  Collected the motors from the rewind company and looked forward to putting them on and firing the old box up. Everything went smoothly until I tried to plug the magazine motor in. The wiring connectors were different. I searched high and low in case I was trying to plug in something unrelated. Checked the wiring schematics and it was definitely the plug I needed. Thoughts are running through my mind `has there been a mix up at the motor menders'. Highly unlikely. Another check of the schematics to be double sure. Back to the box again, the answer had to be in the connector. It seems that the connector from the micro switches has been changed and to make it work someone has poked the pins out of the connector from the motor and pushed them into the connector from the microswitches and just butted the two halves together. As I pulled them apart the pins went back into the block so I never noticed when I removed the motor. At least we are one step closer and having both motors serviced for a little over £50 I'm happy.
               

                     Rod

[Ron Rich]

Hi Rod,
Hopefully, you need A-MP, "Mate n Lock" connectors, as they are still available ! A-MP, "Amp-loc" type, were discontinued in the 1960's and are impossible to find except used-- Ron Rich

[rockolarod]

Mar 1, 2021 14:21:57 GMT Ron Rich said:

Hi Rod,
Hopefully, you need A-MP, "Mate n Lock" connectors, as they are still available ! A-MP, "Amp-loc" type, were discontinued in the 1960's and are impossible to find except used-- Ron Rich

Hi Rich, 
 On closer inspection it is the motor connector which is wrong so I'm guessing someone has changed a motor and just bodged the connector.
 Like auto's they update things during production and it may be as simple as a different connector on the same motor. 
I have found some Mate n lock connectors so will order some up. Thank you.
               Rod

[Ron Rich]

Hi Rod,
I would ASSume, that you are correct-- same motor was used for many years--- Ron Rich

[rockolarod]

Hi guys, another question if I may? Everything seems to work as it should until the write out carriage fails to stop when it should.
My question is, when it makes contact with the selected lever should this trip both coils in the interlock relay. My understanding from the manual seems to suggest so. The trip coil operates but not the release coil.
Thank you. Rod

[Ron Rich]

Hi Rod,

My memory suggests that the two relays in the box under the mech shelf, are mechanically locked together ? If one is energized, the other is "un-locked", mechanically ? Ron Rich

P.S. There is no "Write-out"-- it is called " Write IN", and "Read-OUT" ---

[jukenorman]

Hi Rod,
Page 40 of the manual shows that only the interlock trip coil energises when a selection pin is found. On to page 41 and you see that a contact of the tripped interlock relay dynamically brakes the magazine motor and also enables the gripper motor to run. So either the interlock relay is failing to flip over when the trip coil is energised or that contact is either not making or dirty.
Norman.

[rockolarod]

Mar 3, 2021 14:21:40 GMT Ron Rich said:

Hi Rod,

My memory suggests that the two relays in the box under the mech shelf, are mechanically locked together ? If one is energized, the other is "un-locked", mechanically ? Ron Rich

P.S. There is no "Write-out"-- it is called " Write IN", and "Read-OUT" ---

Hi Ron,

    With the power switched off, moving the contacts on the trip, the contacts on on the release move in tandem, but with the power on the trip activates but the release doesn't move.  So what you are saying sounds correct.
             Rod

[rockolarod]

Mar 3, 2021 14:54:25 GMT jukenorman said:

Hi Rod,
Page 40 of the manual shows that only the interlock trip coil energises when a selection pin is found. On to page 41 and you see that a contact of the tripped interlock relay dynamically brakes the magazine motor and also enables the gripper motor to run. So either the interlock relay is failing to flip over when the trip coil is energised or that contact is either not making or dirty.
Norman.

Hi Norman,
         I think you are right. The read out carriage activates the trip relay only and the carriage just keeps going round and round. When you manually flip the selector lever back over the carriage stops where it's supposed to. I'll have to scour through Youtube clips to see if I can see what should be in the control box because there seems to be some work done in there that may or may not be correct.
      Rod

[Ron Rich]

Hi Rod,
Interesting-- What does the Service Manual say ?? Ron Rich

[Ron Rich]

Rod,
Watch out for "YouTube"-- LOTSA wrong info there !! Ron Rich