Help with Seburg 222 tormat "reads"...

[rudy18d]

Hello,

Working on a Seeburg 222 and all letter/number combination "write" to the tormat and initiates the mechanism search. 98% of the "A" side of records (top numbers on the letter/number display) "read" fine and play the records. However, most but not all the "B" side of records (bottom numbers on letter/number display) will not "read" and go by the selection and mech goes back to home position.  The really odd thing is that most of the missed selections will eventually play later after another different selection is made...sometimes after several selections are made. Can't reproduce however.

I have read there is not much to do for the internals of the tormat. I have cleaned all read "dots" with electronics cleaner and a soft, clean rag. Is there anything else I can clean or adjust to get more of the "B" side selections reading?


Thanks in advance.

Rudy 

[rudy18d]

160 TM1 Code A Tormat
TSU1 Code A
RCSU2
SHFA2 Code A Amp

[jukenorman]

Hi Rudy,
First of all, are the spring loaded read-out contacts nice and flat? If so, the relative position of the A and B sides plunger contacts is covered in the manual on page 2445. You don't do anything with the internals of the tormat!

Norman.

[rudy18d]

Hi Norm,
Yes, the terminals are all flat. I followed the directions on the pages you recommended and I still have the read issues on some.

I even ran the additional ground wire per Rons post ref the 222.

Any other ideas to try?

Thanks!
Rudy

[jukeboxmarty]

Make sure your detent switch is clean (with no pits) and adjusted correctly. It definitely seems like a read-out issue.

[jukeboxmarty]

Also... if you haven't already, check the thin wires on the contact plungers to make sure they are connected properly, and make sure the contact plungers move up and down freely.

Edit: If all the above fails.... Check the contacts on the Reversing Switch.

[rudy18d]

Hi Marty,

Yes, I had cleaned the detent before all this but cleaned and adjusted it again to make sure. No difference.
I had already checked the tiny wires soldered to the contact plunger and one was barely hanging on by a strand or two. I resoldered and all contact plungers move freely.

I had cleaned and tested all the contact switches on the mech. I rechecked and all still look good.

Grasping for straws here...the one thing I did not replace was the smoothing selenium rectifier on the mech. On the schematic it shows it to be fairly isolated but does have a direct connection to the Trip Solenoid.
Would it be worthwhile to spend the time and replace it? I kinda doubt it could be the culprit in the random "B" side read errors I am having.

Could it just be the Tormat itself? Do certain connections inside tormat just go bad? Or is it an all or nothing deal?

Sorry for the questions, I usually deal with the older pin selectors and not much experience on the tormat side.

Thanks!
Rudy

[jukenorman]

Hi Rudy,
It's very unlikely to be the tormat, you might get the odd broken ferrite bead but not blanket failure. If you've dealt with the mechanical aspects, what about the electrics? Are you getting a solid -300V on the read out voltage and did you change out the electrolytic capacitors around the OA2s? I know that you have said that the A sides are by and large fine - but if the read out voltage is marginal, it may well be that it's showing up mainly on the B sides purely because of the contact plungers alignment.

Norman.

[rudy18d]

Good thought Norman. As just a practice on any rebuild I always replace all electrolytics. That was several months ago now, easy enough to test the voltage again. I will this evening.
Thanks Norman!
Rudy

[64b1t]

Is it that the B sides "eventually" play after the carriage has scanned a couple times, and *all* those missed B sides play in the same sweep of the carriage? If so, it's possible that the reversing switch is dirty.

[jukeboxmarty]

The 0A2 Voltage Regulator tubes usually flicker at each detent (record) position as the carriage moves by. Are your 0A2's flickering consistently or erratically?

Did you try the famous Seeburg battery test?

If the selections eventually play after being selected, or even if it's tripping randomly it's a read-out problem.

Also check the contact block vs tormat alignment (Tormat Memory Unit Position).

[rudy18d]

Thanks fellas for all your ideas.

@norman: checked the readout voltage and I get a steady -296 volts. Electrolytics are new and all were replaced.

@61b1t: I recleaned the reverse switch and no difference.

jukeboxmarty: The 0A2's don't flicker at all. they just stay lit...

      No, have not tried the battery test. I will in a few. I have checked and rechecked the contact block vs tormat alignment from page 2445

So frustrating that some work fine A and B sides and ones right next to the selection (A and B) that works, doesn't work at all. Ugh...

Any other ideas?

Rudy

[rudy18d]

Well...did the battery test on the tormat and the results were not good. Approximately 50% of the "B" side got a detent and stopped to play a record. Maybe 80% of the "A" got a detent and played. How can I use these results to try and get these percentages up? Does that mean the Tormat is actually that bad??

Rudy

[jukeboxmarty]

Most of what you can do has already been mentioned already in this thread. Some of the adjustments are tricky so triple checking wouldn't be superfluous.

I'm sure those 0A2's are flickering.... just probably very dimly. Sometimes it's hard to see.

After the battery test do subsequent scan cycles result in any 'trips'? If not it may be a pulse amp or Tyratron issue.

[rudy18d]

jukeboxmarty: Yes, subsequent scans after the battery test yielded some random trips.

Will triple check everything again now. If something else come to mind, please let me know. 

If I had hair I would be pulling it out right about now :-)

Thanks for your help.
Rudy