Well...I think I got screwed. :-(

[SBP]

As the subject line says, I think I got screwed.

I just got my Wurlitzer Model 2200 last weekend without the amp.  The seller said it was a Model 2204.  I believed them because I didn't know enough about them to know the difference.  He then told me the amp went to the local shop to be refurbished because he refurbished everything else and wanted the amp done too.  Made sense to me.  So, I bought the unit and transported it home.

I went and bought the amp back from the local shop that refurbished/rebuilt it and he was kind and explained all what was done and such.  No problem.  Brought it home and asked a couple of questions on this forum so I knew how to plug everything back in.  I finally did that tonight.  I also looked at the model/serial number plaque on the rear of the unit and saw that it's a Model 2200 and NOT a Model 2204, like the seller said it was.  <ugggghh>  Technically I'm fine with that since it holds more records, but now I'm nervous that he didn't know crap about the unit even though he acted like he did.

I got all excited and put in a few records and flipped the switch on the amp to turn it on.

The lights turn on (except one bulb up near the top/front just under the actual record player itself) and everything looks good to go.  I pressed A and then 1 and they don't stay down.  I thought they should stay down until you push the silver button on the front to make the selection.  I pushed the silver button anyway and nothing happens.  I know the person that sold it to me said it was setup for "free play".  I looked up that info here on the forum and see that the spring in the coin box has been reversed, as to mark it for free play.  Ok, cool.  Again, I can push any letter and then any number and none of the buttons stay down and when I press the silver button, nothing happens.  Also, the "select" light does not turn on.  However, I don't know if that bulb is burned out or not, I will have to check.  Just in case, I even put a quarter in the slot and it sounded like it went down somewhere.  Press A and then 1, again, nothing.  I then tried to press the coin release and it's basically stuck in the up position.  So, no coin return.

So, I feel I was stupid and got screwed and this jukebox was never playable to begin with.  I sent a text to the person, but have not heard back.  Not that I'm surprised.  I know, poor me.  I'm sure you see stuff like this on the forum a lot. 

Since I thought it was a Model 2204 (that's what the seller told me it was), I purchased the Model 2204 manual.  Supposedly they are fairly the same, but the Model 2204 holds only 52 records and the Model 2200 holds 100.  Anyway, I said screw it and bought a Model 2200 service manual from Victory Glass today.  I'll wait for it to come in and then read it cover to cover to see if I can figure out why nothing it working at all.

If any one has any suggestions on what I should look at prior to the manual coming in, I'd love to hear the suggestions.

Thanks for listening,
Mat

[jukeboxmarty]

I'm sorry but I have to ask...

Are you sure all the plugs are plugged in correctly? The amplifier provides the power for everything else.

[jukeboxmarty]

Also... What happens if you manually set a pin on the electrical selector?

[SBP]

Oct 17, 2023 0:39:35 GMT jukeboxmarty said:

I'm sorry but I have to ask...

Are you sure all the plugs are plugged in correctly? The amplifier provides the power for everything else.

Jukeboxmarty,

That is a good question.  Everything I saw was plugged in.  I only had to plug the rest of the plugs into the amp (which were pin coded, so I didn't screw them up) and one "chassis" plug that had to go into the junction box (I don't know why the seller unplugged that one to take the amp out).

However, I'm going to look at it tonight and see if I can verify everything is plugged into the proper place.  Only thing I can think of is:

a) Two of the same pin coded plugs are plugged in wrong on the junction box

or

b) There is some sort of break/problem with the electrical once it gets past the first fluorescent bulb near the bottom of the title card holder and the power isn't getting to the selector switch(es).

One thing I'm going to do (two really) is to pull the fluorescent bulb that I know works (on the bottom) and plug it into the top position and take the upper bulb and plug it into the bottom position.  This will tell me if the bulb itself is bad or if the upper bulb position has electrical issues.  It's just a quick test.  If it is a problem with the upper bulb position, I will then use a multimeter to see if it is getting power up there.

Secondly, I'll pull every fuse on the junction box and the amp just to verify they are still good.  I believe the amp is fine since the gentleman rebuilt it and is pretty well known for doing quality work.  So, I'm more worried about the junction box.  It no longer has the plastic cover on it.  I don't know if that means anything or not because it is a used machine.

Anyway, as I wait for the proper model manual, I will check the plugs, the bulbs and the fuses and go from there.

As for your question regarding manually setting a pin on the electrical selector, I don't know how to do that so I can't check that.  I'm still reading the manual I currently have for the 2204 (not my 2200) to see if it might help me in regards to this.  Also, would you perform this test with the machine powered up or when it is powered down and unplugged?  I don't want to do the wrong thing and make things worse.   

Thanks,
Mat

[SBP]

I haven't had a chance to "replug" everything back in yet and verify if all is correct. I also haven't had a chance to test the bulbs/fuses as I mentioned above. Hopefully I can try and get that done tonight.

Of course I have texted the seller two more times and he has completely disappeared. No calls or texts back. That just proves to me that he KNEW he was screwing me over and the jukebox didn't work even when the amp was present. Ugggghhh...

I'm just hoping that with the manual and some kind assistance from the great people here, I can get it working properly.

[jukeboxgeek]

Jukebox Marty...
Don't be so hard on yourself;I too was a new member on this forum at one time.....and I think you will find a lot of people willing to help. I am up to give it a go if you still need the help....but you may have already figured it out?
If not, my first suggestion is that you contact me at xxxxxxxxxx and I'll walk you through some of the basics you might consider. ( This fourm is not the best framework for having such discussions.) I have been able to help several people with their Wurlitzer issues. One only needs a lot of patience and persistence....and a serious focus given to health and safety.You don't want to hurt yourself or break something else in your troubleshooting process.
Looking forward to helping you out if I can.....assuming you still need it.
FYI....to begin with,checking all your fuses as has been suggested is a good idea. You may very well may have a power supply/connector problem to the keyboard.....however it (keyboard power) is not related at all to/with power to the florescent tubes in your jukebox. Tubes are 110vac powered and the keyboard is 24v/28v DC power related.
Also if you had power to your keyboard , the jukebox is supposed to make a record selection (solenoid pin release) immediately AFTER you depressed the "A" and the "1" keys.....both keys should also latch in their down ( Pushed) positions ...:and no other key needs to be depressed.
This does not seem to be happening?

And finally.....I can walk you thru how to manually select a record without using the buttons on the keyboard. ...that's referred to as "manually releasing a record selection pin".....as has been suggeste. It's really something one needs to know how to do.....and where we will start.
Hang in there.....to me all jukeboxes are engineering design marvels ...and also very nice to look it.
Good luck to both of us.
Mike

[jukeboxmarty]

Jan 17, 2024 19:23:12 GMT jukeboxgeek said:

Jukebox Marty...
Don't be so hard on yourself;I too was a new member on this forum at one time.....and I think you will find a lot of people willing to help. I am up to give it a go if you still need the help....but you may have already figured it out?
If not, my first suggestion is that you contact me at xxxxxxxxxx and I'll walk you through some of the basics you might consider. ( This fourm is not the best framework for having such discussions.) I have been able to help several people with their Wurlitzer issues. One only needs a lot of patience and persistence....and a serious focus given to health and safety.You don't want to hurt yourself or break something else in your troubleshooting process.
Looking forward to helping you out if I can.....assuming you still need it.
FYI....to begin with,checking all your fuses as has been suggested is a good idea. You may very well may have a power supply/connector problem to the keyboard.....however it (keyboard power) is not related at all to/with power to the florescent tubes in your jukebox. Tubes are 110vac powered and the keyboard is 24v/28v DC power related.
Also if you had power to your keyboard , the jukebox is supposed to make a record selection (solenoid pin release) immediately AFTER you depressed the "A" and the "1" keys.....both keys should also latch in their down ( Pushed) positions ...:and no other key needs to be depressed.
This does not seem to be happening?

And finally.....I can walk you thru how to manually select a record without using the buttons on the keyboard. ...that's referred to as "manually releasing a record selection pin".....as has been suggeste. It's really something one needs to know how to do.....and where we will start.
Hang in there.....to me all jukeboxes are engineering design marvels ...and also very nice to look it.
Good luck to both of us.
Mike

First of all Mike please review the rules...

jukeboxaddicts.proboards.com/thread/4249/forum-rules

We don't allow the posting of personnel info or contact information within the threads.

Second...

If you want to be a member of this forum I thinks it's best not to divert users somewhere else. Especially by saying "This forum is not the best framework for having such discussions." We've helped hundreds of members through these threads and yes, I think this is a great place for such discussions. Discussions on these forums will likely help many others besides those directly posting; It's a library of information.

Third...

You started this thread off with an incorrect salutation ("Jukebox Marty"). This thread should have been directed at Mat (SBP), the original poster. It's been many years since I've been a newbie!

Fourth...

This is a community, not some place for individual grandstanding. If you want to contribute HERE, we welcome your input to contribute HERE... to build a community.

[SBP]

Mike (jukeboxgeek),

I appreciate the offer to help. However, as Marty (jukeboxmarty - moderator) pointed out, I would just discuss it here so others, if needed, can get this info as well by searching. That's how I generally find a lot of help on this forum and other types of forums. :-)

With that being said, I haven't had a chance to continue troubleshooting the issue with my Wurlitzer Model 2200. I still need to pull and check every fuse and every connection inside the jukebox. Good to know, however, that the lighting part of the system has nothing to do with the "keyboard" issue of it not working. It was my thought (with the lighting comment I made) that maybe if the power wasn't getting to the lights, that the power also wasn't getting to the "keyboard". Was just a thought. Plus, swapping of the fluorescent tubes will tell me whether or not that I need to buy a new tube for the one that is not working at the moment. :-)

Any which way, I'm hoping to actually do some testing of the electrical system and verifying all plugs are plugged into their proper receptacles by this weekend if my health holds up well. That's been the issue on why I haven't gone any further regarding testing. :-(

I appreciate everyone's help on this topic as I have a feeling I'm going to need more assistance after I check everything.

Thanks,
Mat / SBP

[jukeboxmarty]

No problem Mat,

We'll be here whenever you're ready!

-Marty

[SBP]

I appreciate that, Marty.

[phillg]

Mat, another "don't beat yourself up"... I've bought machines that were advertised as "working" which did not and I've bought machines advertised as "hasn't worked for a long time" that worked perfectly after a little oil.

I've also bought a machine that I saw working with my own eyes before it was transported that no longer worked when it was powered back on!

Let us know how you're getting on!

Cheers,
Phill

[SBP]

Jan 29, 2024 17:39:27 GMT phillg said:

Mat, another "don't beat yourself up"... I've bought machines that were advertised as "working" which did not and I've bought machines advertised as "hasn't worked for a long time" that worked perfectly after a little oil.

I've also bought a machine that I saw working with my own eyes before it was transported that no longer worked when it was powered back on!

Let us know how you're getting on!

Cheers,
Phill

Phill,

I appreciate it.  Maybe it did work but after transport it didn't, but I don't think that is the case.  When I texted the seller about it not working when I got the amp installed, he simply disappeared and ghosted me.  I sent like three texts and nothing.  So, I'm sure he knew it didn't work.  I have a feeling he had the amp rebuilt in hopes that would have fixed it.  It didn't.

I'm continuing the testing this week.  I haven't found any fuse issues as of yet, but I'm trying to check every single part I can think of.  I'm unplugging things one at a time to make sure the contacts are clean and replugging it back in.  So, unless something was plugged in wrong initially, I should be good with that.  As Marty had pointed out in this or another thread (I believe it was Marty), the plugs are "keyed", so they should only go in one way on a particular socket.  At least for the amp anyway.  

As I'm pulling and checking fuses and connections, I'm also checking to see if there are any "stray" wires anywhere in the back (really the front) of the unit that I didn't notice and aren't plugged in.  I'm not great on schematics, so I can't look at the schematics I have and go "oh, this goes here" type thing.  That's the only bad thing, otherwise I would follow the schematics to verify if everything is truly plugged in properly.

[phillg]

Yes, the plugs are all keyed so you know which way round they go (and to stop you plugging them in the wrong way round...). Most machines don't use the same plug twice, making it impossible to put the plug in the wrong place, although I have an older Seeburg that has exactly this and I've spent more time than I care to admit troubleshooting that exact issue

Most machines have a "free credit" switch behind the selector (buttons) and your 2200 should have one. From memory, my 2400 has it on the right once you open the glass. The switch isn't designed to put the machine into free play, it just allows one play for testing while repairing the machine. It'll be a small black switch you slide to one side (it'll ping back as it's spring loaded). See if that allows you to make a selection, I believe that bypasses the credit unit so will allow you to take that out of the picture to troubleshoot.

If the machine has been in free play too long, the big 5W fuse in the selection assembly can overheat, although that's rare.

Good luck!
Phill

[SBP]

Phill,

Good info, thank you. I know that mine is already setup in the coin box area for free play all of the time. I'm currently going through all of the fuses to see if one may have blown or something. Upon transporting it fell on me (ya, don't ask. LOL!) while loading it onto the trailer. It fell onto the side. So, maybe it's possible that broke a fuse or something. The amp wasn't installed at the time, so that should be fine, but I'll test everything again just in case. (the amp was rebuilt by a pro at the time, that's why it wasn't installed)

So, I'm hoping to find a blown fuse or something. Or a plug isn't fully pushed in. I noticed that most of the plugs are only long enough to reach their intended destination, such as the junction box (I think that's what it is called) and the amp.

Again, thank you for the info.

Take care,
Mat

[flashbk13]

Hi SBP,
Since the jukebox fell and was jarred by the impact. I have a suggestion, before checking all of those fuses (if you haven't yet). Open up the playrak credit unit and make sure that toothed wheel with the spring wrapped around it hasn't moved back to the 0 no credit position. Manually advance it up a couple positions to make sure it's in a credit position. this will solve your no play/ credit issues if this was the case and save you checking all of those other items, except for the lights. As for them, even after you change lamps and it still doesn't light, it could be the starter (those little can shaped things), also try swapping them around the one from the good position with the one from the bad position. (they are just twist in, counterclockwise to remove and clockwise to install). As the seller is questionable, I would go ahead and check all of the fuses anyway as you don't know what he may have done inside the jukebox, and you don't want a fire from over amperage values from wrong fuses. Good luck, Rick.