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Post by oldjuker on Oct 23, 2023 17:41:16 GMT
Been working on W1900 and have it "mostly working". Problem is in selecting the "proper"record. No matter what letter/number is selected, the proper record does NOT come up. Appears random record is played but will need to check for a pattern for sure. Would be most helpful to know what are areas to address that may be causing this problem. Thanks in advance Oldjuker
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Post by jukeboxmarty on Oct 24, 2023 3:52:36 GMT
Not a lot of info to go on. But...
Please do check for a pattern, such as only selects the letter "D" group.
Make sure the correct 'selector pin' is being set when you choose a particular selection.
One common cause for improper selections is the 'rotary plate and rocker arm assembly' or the 'stop magnet' solenoids are not moving freely.
Do you have a service manual? If not you should get one.
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Post by oldjuker on Oct 24, 2023 12:52:09 GMT
Thanks for the reply. Yes I do have the service manual. I have restored an 1800 and a Seeburg C some years ago so it's not my first rodeo, but never had this problem before. Thanks for at least giving me an area to start looking at.If you or anyone else has been down this path with a similar problem and would like to give free advice, I'm listening. I'm going to start working on seeing what the complete pattern is for all selections and then check the rotary plate, rocker arm assm. and stop magnet. This box belongs to my niece and I can only work on it on the weekends so my replies to my successes (or failures) will be spaced out. Thanks again for the help. Oldjuker
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Post by oldjuker on Oct 30, 2023 2:13:45 GMT
OK, I have spent another Sunday trying to understand why the W1900 makes the wrong selections. First off I have discovered the carousel has a "notch" on one of the teeth at the base of the carousel that "supposedly" should be lined up with "D26. This has been done. Next I have attempted to find a pattern in the wrong selections. It does appear that most, not all, selections are off by 10 spaces. That is if A1 is selected, the ring on the carousel shows A11 etc. Again, not all follow this pattern but most do. Interestingly enough the pin on the junction box that pops up in many cases,not all, will be correct with the letter and number selected. Understanding the point that the selections are not 100 percent holding to the pattern is disturbing to say the least. The "off by 10 spaces" is NOT consistent. We ran out of time to finish all the selections for a full look at 104 selections. So far all of the "A" selections have been done with the results as stated. It is a bit aggravating that I only have one day a week to work on the box, but it is what it is. Still hoping someone out there can lead me in a direction to solve this mystery. Any help is much appreciated. Oldjuker By the way , the pivot arm and roller aasm. appear to be working fine
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Post by jukenorman on Oct 31, 2023 9:43:18 GMT
I'm a bit confused here (easily done lol!)! I think you need to separate the write-in from the read-out when you're doing your checks. So when you're making a selection - check which selection pin is being popped, are they working correctly/is there a pattern?. And when you are manually popping pins, check how they align with the slot that's selected, again are they correct/is there a pattern?
Norman.
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Post by oldjuker on Oct 31, 2023 15:20:10 GMT
Norman,thanks for your reply. I'm sorry my description is not too clear. So far I have only been through all 26 of the "A" selections to check for pattern. I intend to finish all 104 selections next. The pattern that has shown up with the A's is inconsistent. Button selections show up "mostly 10" positions off at the carousel. I say "mostly" because sometimes it appears to be a random selection from what is pressed on the buttons. Now to address how the write in appears at the pin pop up, here again no real consistency. Mostly the pin pop up does agree with the button selection, but at times a random appearing pin does pop up having no relationship with what buttons were selected. Makes no sense to me. My plan next is to finish the full 104 selections and see if the overall picture shows a pattern that will make some sense. My guess is there is a big electrical hook up problem somewhere, but I have no idea even where to start looking. So far it's confusion abound.Sometimes I think these boxes are haunted.
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Post by jukenorman on Oct 31, 2023 17:00:41 GMT
I'm not sure if I would waste my time carrying out further checks on the B, C and D selections? When you make the A selections, the "rotating plate and rocker arm assembly" is being held in position be a spring. When you make the B, C and D selections, the plate is being pulled to a different position by solenoids (see manual if you require explanation) but it will be the same 1 to 26 selection solenoids that will pop the pins. So if they are troublesome on the A's, it's difficult to see how that is going to change!
I don't know what you've done previously with regard to cleaning pushbuttons, plugs/sockets and contact plates? If that has been done, you're probably going to have to get the schematics out and trace through circuits to try to find where the problems are.
Norman.
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Post by jukeboxmarty on Oct 31, 2023 19:06:59 GMT
Just a thought...
Are the plugs from the keyboard mixed up? Specifically plugs #1 and #2. This could explain why it's 10 numbers off. But this only applies if the the wrong selector pin is popping (i.e. pin A11 pops instead of A1).
Another thought...
If the correct pin is popping (say a1), and the selector crank hits the 'A1' pin but the carousel indicates 'A11' something may not be assembled correctly!
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Post by oldjuker on Nov 1, 2023 2:34:40 GMT
Marty and Norman, I'm with you both on your thinking. I will go back to basics first checking and rechecking all 4 plugs coming from the button bank (I have switched plugs 1&2-made things worse). I have cleaned the button bank and now brought it home to recheck all contacts and adjustments.Hopefully after all this, when I return to the box this weekend things will have improved. Who knows,the jukebox gods may start to have sympathy on me. Will report back later. Thanks again for your support. Oldjuker
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Post by oldjuker on Nov 2, 2023 15:50:01 GMT
Update on new thought. Last night in bed (I do my best thinking when I'm half asleep) I remembered that some months back I replaced the 10 pin plug on cable coming from the junction box and going to the amp. It occurred to me that IF the plug was incorrectly clocked when replaced this could be a source for the selection problem. Can anyone confirm that that plug ,in any way, could be a contributing factor in my dilemma? Oldjuker
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Post by oldjuker on Nov 4, 2023 22:37:32 GMT
OK here is the latest info on the selection problem. There is a pattern of sorts on how the relationship between selection made (write in) and pin that is released. Here is what I find. Starting with selection "A1" through selection "A10", the pin released is exactly ten pins off in the forward direction (eg, A1=A11,A2=A12 and so on through selection A10=A20. Then starting with selection A11 through A20 the pin released is exactly ten pins off in the backward direction (eg. A11=A1,A12=A2 and so on through A20=A10. THEN the last six selections (A21 through A26) match the pins released as they should. Soooo, there is somewhat of a pattern but damned if I can figure out how or why this is happening. At this point I have NOT confirmed that "B","C",& "D" have the same pattern. Just have not had the time to complete the writing down the rest of the selections. However, assuming B,C,& D have the same pattern, does ANYBODY have any guess as to what the problem is? I'm all ears(eyes) Oldjuker
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Post by jukeboxmarty on Nov 5, 2023 1:37:19 GMT
Are the plugs from the keyboard mixed up? Specifically plugs #1 and #2. This could explain why it's 10 numbers off. But this only applies if the the wrong selector pin is popping (i.e. pin A11 pops instead of A1).
I seem to be repeating myself, but based on the result you just posted, and after checking the schematics... plug number #1 and plug #2 are reversed.
Having these two plugs reversed would give you this exact result!
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Post by oldjuker on Nov 5, 2023 13:20:45 GMT
Marty thank you very much for your reply. I was always hoping it would be something as simple as that. I did switch those plugs a while back to see but was convinced it did not solve the problem. But it is quite possible I did not do enough to confirm that this helped. My bad. For sure I will switch those plugs and go through a complete check of the selections. Again I can't express my appreciation for you taking the time to help me.Unfortunately I won't be back to work on the box until next weekend but will report the results. Oldjuker
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Post by oldjuker on Nov 13, 2023 2:17:21 GMT
Update on selection problem. Marty was exactly right (thanks again Marty) as the #1 & #2 plugs on the selector assm. were reversed.I guess when I originally switched these plugs to see if that would correct the problem somehow I screwed up the verification. Sooo the selection problem seems to be behind me. Now on to the NEW problem.The selector assm.(button bank) had been working but aesthetically looked terrible.So,not following my own advice (if it ain't broke don't fix it), I decided to clean it up. Washed it with dawn detergent-first removed the latch bar solenoid and counter- blew it dry with heat gun and then recleaned the contacts and readjusted tolerances. Naturally, after this, it doesn't work.Technically what doesn't work is the latch bar solenoid won't pull in.If I manually hold it in after pressing a letter and release after pressing a number the selection is made. I feel this is not a major problem,yet. So my plan is to check for voltage going to the solenoid first. Also , if I recall right, there is a coil under the bottom of the junction box that must pull in to make the latch bar solenoid pull in, At this point I need to point out there is no grinder in the box at all. I have installed a "free play" module that compensates for the lack of a grinder and is working or has been working fine as far as I know. So if anyone can confirm I'm headed in the right direction or can lead me in a new direction, bring it on. I will repeat from an earlier post, I only have a few hours each Sunday to work on the Wurlitzer 1900 so bare with me on reporting results. Thanks Oldjuker
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Post by jukeboxmarty on Nov 13, 2023 4:31:16 GMT
Does the latch bar solenoid stay in after you push it in by hand?
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