Are all Bodine KCI-42 motors physically the same size?

[jeffinmn]

I have a Seeburg V200. I'd like to get a spare motor for it. There is a seller on Ebay that has these for sale. He lists the Seeburg models that the motor will fit into as the following models: 

FC 1&2 / SPS2/ STD's/ 100-77D, 100-78D
U, EU, PFEA1U, APFEA1, SS160, S, LS, USC 1&2, SX, SL, SPS 100.

Will this motor fit a Seeburg V200?

[Ron Rich]

Jeff--
Three answers to that question--
1. If a KCI 42, yes
2 If a KCI 42 A-1 or KCI 42 A-1B, no
3.All but the "B" model will interchange in any Seeburg built since 1949.
(See my Seeburg Mechanism Guide for more info)
My question for you is "why"--I have seen only a very few of the Bodine's fail--
Ron Rich

[jeffinmn]

Good to know that they rarely fail. The other reason I might get another motor is that my V200 runs about 2% fast. As we've discussed, this may be normal and by design. However I'm wondering if the motor is running faster than 1600RPM and if I try a different motor I will be able to tell if that is true. I don't know if it's worth the effort.

I wonder if there is a phone at that can measure the RPM of an electric motor by counting the rotations of the shaft.

I'm a little confused by your answer to my question above. The motor available is a KCI42 A1. For a V200 you state No in line two but then in line 3 state all but the B model will interchange in any Seeburg built since 1949. Can you clarify this for me?

I would be interested in buying your Seeburg Mechanism Guide. How much is it and do you have an email address for Paypal so I can pay you? Do you have any other books available or a web site I can look at?

[Ron Rich]

You asked if all were the same size--as I stated, all KCI 42's are-42 A-1, and A-1B's are not -
The A-1's are slightly different in size, but will interchange with any brand motor Seeburg used. The A-1B will physically do so too-but not electrically, without modifications.
My Mech. guide is available directly from me--contact me off forum, for details, at : [e-mail]   Ron Rich

[robnyc]

Apr 7, 2018 13:00:13 GMT jeffinmn said:

I have a Seeburg V200. I'd like to get a spare motor for it. There is a seller on Ebay that has these for sale. He lists the Seeburg models that the motor will fit into as the following models: 

FC 1&2 / SPS2/ STD's/ 100-77D, 100-78D
U, EU, PFEA1U, APFEA1, SS160, S, LS, USC 1&2, SX, SL, SPS 100.

Will this motor fit a Seeburg V200?

The answer is :Yes.

-And it will run just as fast as what you already have.

If that is too fast and you have cash to burn, try a Nidec: www.ebay.com/itm/seeburg-brand-new-motor-nidec-motor/282887597794?hash=item41dd6a2ee2:g:j9sAAOSwezVWwydk    

Realistically, those are the alternatives. I use a Nidec in a VL on location, it is slower but seems correct. This is the motor that Seeburg used on all their later models w/no changes to the gear-train. I think this is what you are looking for. Be sure to get the 4 wire.

RobNYC

[jeffinmn]

He had the Make an Offer feature on Ebay so I was able to purchase the Nidec motor for a very fair price. It is the 4 wire version but I don't know which wire goes to which terminal on the V200 mech. I'd appreciate it if you could explain this to me. Is each pair of wires connected to a different set of coils? I could measure the resistance of the wires to find each coil but then what?

The wires coming out of the motor are green, blue, yellow, and red. 

He will ship it Monday so I should have it soon.

[robnyc]

Here is the mech schematic: www.flickr.com/photos/90641375@N06/25150148358/ As you can see, the top two are (L to R) green-red Bottom two are: blue-yellow

Impedance (+- a few percent)Green to yellow wires approx 100 ohms. Red to blue approx 260 ohms.

When removing the existing motor, make sure the rubber plug is still present on the ledge under the center of the motor. When installing the new motor, do not tighten the allen screws till the motor in in-place and make sure they are indexed in the slot on the motor shaft.

-----Make sure to liberally oil the new motor w/20wt non-detergent oil. 3-In 1 motor oil will do). Nidec's do not like to go thirsty.

RobNYC

[jeffinmn]

Thanks for the instructions, I should have no problem doing this. As far as oil I do have 3 in One motor oil which says SAE 20 right on the can. I also have a bottle of something called Stern Seeburg Special Purpose Oil part number 53025. I'm wondering what kind of oil is in there. I bought it about 15 years ago from Victory Glass and have been using it to oil the mech and the existing motor. Any thought on using that instead of 3 in One? I suppose it might make more sense to use 3 in One since we know it's SAE20.

As far as putting oil into the new Nidec motor, is it just a matter of putting oil into the oil cups coming out of the side of the motor at the top and bottom? I thought I'd fill the cups and spin the motor by hand and presumably the oil in the oil cups will go down as the oil is distributed around the shaft.

Attachments:

[Ron Rich]

Jeff,
Same stuff ! Ron Rich

[jeffinmn]

I've studied the Schematic Diagram and looked at the motor board in the V200 mechanism. I'd appreciate it if you'd look at the schematic again. It looks to me that going left to right Red is upper left hand corner of the diagram and green is in the upper right hand corner. Then, as you stated, blue is lower left hand corner and yellow is the bottom right hand corner. I looked at the motor board on my mech and it looks like the connections physically match what is in the diagram. Is this correct? The colors on the Bodine motor are hard to read after all these years but with C2 right there it helps me confirm what wire goes where. C2 is an original .1mfd 600 volt cap. Do you think I should replace it? the picture needs to be rotated so the cap is on the left side of the motor board. 

Attachments:

[Ron Rich]

"top, L-R', green, red
"bottom"-LR-blue, yellow
BTW "C-2 should have been eliminated, years ago !
Ron Rich

[jeffinmn]

You gentlemen, Ron and Rob, are the experts here. I really appreciate the help you've given me and the others here. You've both told me that the connections to the two terminals on the top of the motor block (E2) are L-R Green, Red. When I look at the Schematic Diagram that Rob posted which also matches the diagram in my copy of the manual, the wire going to terminal on the top left is labeled Red, wire going to the top right terminal is labeled Green.



Apparently I'm reading this wrong and I'd appreciate it if you could educate me a bit as to how to interpret this diagram. I've rebuilt some other tube equipment so I've got some limited experience with schematics.

[robnyc]

Ok, I think I see where the confusion is coming from. You are looking at the box that says "motor B1" instead of the smaller box labeled "E2" slightly to the right -THAT is the terminal strip on front of the mech.

The motor you are getting will have clearer colors. When removing the bodine put a label on each lead so that it will be easier to reuse or sell.

Just match colors and it will work.

RobNYC

[Ron Rich]

Jeff,
Rob's correct-- what is shown in the "motor box" is the internal motor connections. Ron Rich

[jeffinmn]

Thanks to both of you. Ron, I'm curious about your comment to remove C2. What is or was its purpose? My machine still has it. Are you saying I should remove it? What will change if I remove it?