International records

[paradisecs]

Will records from the UK or other countries work on US machines or is the 45 speed dependent on the clock cycles of the power, 50 vs 60 hz?  I hadn't even thought about it until my brother-in-law ordered a $30 45 from UK and it sounds odd, like the speed is wrong.

Stephen

[Ron Rich]

Stephen,
What make/model phono are you attempting to play these on? The 50/60 Hz difference should not make any difference, as you are looking for either 33-1/3rd, or 45 rpm. . Ron Rich

[jukenorman]

45 revolutions per minute is the same the world over as far as a 7" vinyl disc is concerned. Many UK discs don't come with a one and a half inch centre hole as standard so require "dinking". If the dinking isn't done properly (ie centrally), this can make the record sound odd, similar to playing a disc that's warped.
Norman.

[paradisecs]

This is on a STD160. I didn't think the 50/60 should be an issue. It could be a hole issue, I'll check it next time I'm over there.

Stephen

[e093116]

I have hundreds of 7" records from the UK & Ireland, most of them have the "small" center hole and are 45 rpm, these will play at 33 rpm on your STD160 with a functioning autospeed unit.

I'm not sure if there is a special dinking tool for records, but I imagine it would be similar to a 1 1/2" sheet metal Greenlee knockout punch, which are easily obtainable. Just don't get the one for 1 1/2" conduit, it will be way oversize!

Me personally, I thought the risk of cracking/ruining the record during the dinking process wasn't worth pursuing...I just disable the autospeed with the jumper plug on my Seeburgs.  I only have 3 or 4 records that play at 33 rpm.

Some of the records I have the center is designed to snap out easily (to convert it to the large center hole).  There is also a snap in adapter that reduces the large center hole down to the small size, if the record in question has either of these, it should be easy for you to enlarge the center hole and retain the autospeed function.

[six9gs]

Just want to try and simplify and explain this. The 50 verse 60 cycle issue is all about the device playing the 45 RPM record, not about the record. 45 RPM is the same and universal throughout the world. In Europe and many other countries, the AC power supplied to homes runs at 50 cycles per second and in the United States it is 60 cycles per second. Often, almost exclusively, record players in jukeboxes and many other devices (think Reel to reels) will use motors whose speed is dependent and derived from the AC cycles supplied. It is a very practical and efficient way to create motors that need to have precise speeds. This is NOT something that is affected by the actual voltage level such as 110 volts verse 220 volts. Voltages can be easily changed with a transformer. Converting between 50 and 60 cycles is much more problematic, but in many jukeboxes and other electronic pieces using electric motors, changing a simply roller wheel or capstan or similar can 'adjust' the platter (or inches per second for a reel to reel) to play at the correct speed. The motor will spin at 5/6 or 1-1/6 of the intended speed, but the mechanics that transfer it the platter or tape pinch roller will adjust it to the correct speed.

Unsure if that helps anyone, I've lived in Europe and the U.S. and quite familiar with the power differences and issues involved with using U.S. products in Europe and vice versa. So, thought perhaps an explanation might help those who aren't familiar.

[Ron Rich]

Guyz,
Seeburgs that play 45 rpm records use different gear sets, to compensate for 50-60 Hertz. One must have the correct set installed for the country, or use an electronic "Autospeed" to add/reduce the Hertz. Ron Rich

[doghouseriley]

On the subject of "dinking," some 45rpm records sold in the UK in the fifties and sixties came as small hole records, but the centre piece was attached in three or four points by only a couple of millimetres of plastic. This was to make it easy to make it into a large hole record, pretty much anywhere in the world. progressively, as records were manufatured here the centres became solid, so a dinking tool was necesary to convert them to large hole if necessary.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Doghouse,
Some here were made with the knock-out too. However, the three "stubs" often would not allow the record to fit the turntable hub,properly, so "people" took a knife to them--sometimes successful--others not too --Ron Rich

[phillg]

Coming from the UK to the US, I brought a ton of 45s with me from the 50s to the 2000s most of which had small center holes - in fact, as time went on the large center hold became less popular in the UK. The older phonos (both of mine included) don't have AutoSpeed and don't support a small center hole so I have to punch out the hole to use them at all.

I was given a dinker and I've used it successfully on 100+ records without breaking a single one. Use the dinker lightly (don't push!) and work both sides evenly and you should be absolutely fine. Start with a record you don't love if you're not sure!

If your machine is a US-import, you'll need to change the gearing. If it's been in the UK for a while, it'll already be converted so just load it up with your favorite songs and enjoy!

Cheers,
Phill

[Ron Rich]

Phill,
Older Seeburgs, while not really designed to play the small hole records, can do so, with a slight modification of the clamp-arm switch, and VERY careful adjusting, of the clamp disc. NO "dinking" needed--lol ! Ron Rich

[phillg]

Oh, that's worth remembering. My Seeburg is currently in pieces, but I'll see about making that change later when it's back in one piece. Sadly the Wurlitzer definitely can't do it and that's where all my records are right now.

Cheers,
Phill

[paradisecs]

Along the lines of small hole records, I purchased a couple of limited release, brand new this month, 45s with Christmas music on them, both with small holes. When playing the new records there are random skips. Old records play fine unless they have a major scratch on them. These new records are heavy and thick, like old Victrola records, and I guess most likely meant to be played on table top phonographs. Can the weight be causing an issue or do the new pressed records groove differently so the tracking weight would be wrong? (not going to change it since the old ones work) I've put new needles in to check and same result....old records good, new records bad. Any ideas? No issues on the unit except for this. I've pulled the speed stepper out so they run at 45 (Seeburg STD160).

Stephen

[Ron Rich]

Stephen,
See the needle info in the Seeburg section--what pressure is you tone arm set at ?
"--speed stepper" ? You mean "Autospeed" ? All you needed do is unplug the board from it--
Ron Rich

[paradisecs]

Yes, autospeed, I pulled the board, not the entire unit. As for tone arm pressure, it is still set how it came to me. I haven't found a gauge yet that I'm willing to pay for except one ebay auction that I lost because I was in the mountains with no signal. I read the needle info again and while I order my caps, diodes, and resistors in bulk, my needles all come from needlesforjukeboxes so I'm fairly confident they are good.

With regards to the pressure, about how much space should there be between the yellow casing of the needle and the record? The clearance seems less on the new record compared to the older, thinner ones. I'm talking in mm so most people probably wouldn't even notice at first glance but I do see a difference. I won't make the adjustment without the gauge but I am curious if this could be part of the issue.

Stephen.