Seeburg SC Wallbox

[sooner]

I'm a proud new owner of a Seeburg SC wallbox. I'd like to add an mp3 emulator to it but want to make sure the box itself is functioning properly first.



So far here's what I've done and observed. I don't have a 24v supply so I took two 12v adapters and wired them in series to get 24vac. One is 1 amp and the other is .5 amp so they're a little underpowered and hopefully that explains the issues I'm seeing so far.



The coin trigger sensors do not engage the electromagnets or if they do they're not strong enough to engage the mechanisms that initiate the "play" mode. I measured 6 ohms across two of them and don't measure any voltage on them when the coin triggers are depressed.



When I manually move the mechanisms to initiate the play mode it does go through the cycle most of the time although it runs slow and tends to hang up when various mechanisms are engaged. It seems to work better after it's made a few rounds. In particular any combination that include the number "1" is problematic. I assume this is cause partly by the underpowered input voltage (it drops to 21v when the mechanism is running) and probably needs lubrication.



I plan on purchasing a proper 24v power supply and hope that will help with the mechanism issues. My biggest concern is why the electromagnetics don't engage when the coin triggers are engaged. Would appreciate any thoughts. Also are schematics available for these?

[Ron Rich]

Hi Steve,
Yes--you are suffering from both "under-power" and lack of proper lubrication, of the drive train, and MOTOR --Please see our FAQ's section to purchase "da book"--and ask if it contains the latest (issue 2) schematic ! Also check the FAQ's for oil type--same as for the mechanism of the phonograph. As for the coin "problem"--no problem ! You just have not "hooked up" power to the coin coils. As designed, the 3 coin coils would get power from the phonograph's "Income Totalizer"(IT). Since you have no IT, you need to jump all 3 of the coin coils ( terminal strip on left) to the power source-- Use a 12 ohm/10 watt resistor in series with the coils, connected to the 25 volt source (white terminal). Ron Rich

[sooner]

Thanks Ron!

The coin relays work great now!. Also thanks for the tip on not cleaning the silkscreen. I already cleaned the glass and avoided the silkscreen since I could see it was lifting up around the edges already.

A couple other questions for now. I notice the outer control arm on the APU10 is running along the very far edge of the contact points. Looks like it may even be missing some of them. Is there an adjustment for that other than trying to bend it with an arch so it tracks closer in?

Also, what's the deal with the number "1" that makes it difficult to complete the rotation. Is there a lot of extra torque required for that button position.

[Ron Rich]

Steve,
Don't understand your 1st question--what "outer control arm--" ?? The APU is the pricing unit--are you speaking of the rotating arm on the selection disc ? No idea of what yor problem with the number 1 could be, keyboard is locked the same for all numbers--should not make any difference as to which # is pressed ?--Did you PROPERLY oil the motor, and drive train ?? Did you read the PM I sent you ?? Ron Rich

[sooner]

Oh ... Yes I meant to say wiper arm and got that confused with the APU10 looking quickly at the manual...
The outer contact seems to be running at the very edge of the contact points. Maybe eben missing some of them. 


No I haven't taken it apart to lubricate yet. I just notice that any combination with the number "1" won't rotate without some help. Was wondering if there's something special about that button.
All the others work fine. I also notice that when the quarter trigger is activated (for an album) it rotates very slowly. 


Just read your PM. Thanks for the advice. I had already listed Oklahoma as my location in my profile. Do I need to add it to my signature too? Where are you located? I don't see that in your profile either.
 

[Ron Rich]

Hi Steve,
Unless someone has "bent" the contact arm it should have a slight bow in it, and it should be adjustable by loosing the screw, and pulling it away from the disc--this should bring it more to the center of the rivets. As for the #1 --
You should see my location if you look to the left, above my "avatar"--However I just noticed, it's no longer showing ?? I will add it to my signature area-- yes, it often helps to know where one is located, especially when local information is requested/given.

[sooner]

Okay, my wiper arm is flat so I can fix that by bending it. Thanks. Also fixed my profile so Oklahoma shows up too. :-)

As for "da book", is that a service manual ro a reference manual? Are these the two sites where I can get one?
http:// victoryglass.com
www.alwaysjukin.com

[Ron Rich]

Hi Steve,
No-- you don't want to "bend it", it needs to be re-formed in an arch. MINIMAL pressure on the arm/disc, to prevent wear !
Yes sir--"da book" is the Manual-- as for places to purchase manuals--see our FAQ's area ! Ron Rich
Ron Rich

[sooner]

Okay thanks. I'll reform it instead.

On further investigation about the number "1" button. When 2 nickels or one dime are inserted, nothing happens when any letter is combined with the number "1" button. It's only when a quarter, two dimes, or four nickels are inserted (and the album light is lit) that the number "1" will cycle (and then needs help getting around). I'm guessing that if I want to use an mp3 emulator, I'll need to reset the pricing set up so selecting an album in not an option? Otherwise, as is, it appears that nothing would play with number "1" being in the selection.

[sooner]

Update.... I figured out number "1" is currently set for albums and I can change that so it's for singles instead. I assume I need to do that to use with an emulator? Or are emulators smart enough to play a combination of albums and singles too?

EDIT: Duh... I just realized I can set my mp3 up with singles or albums. Now wondering why it has a hard time rotating when an album is selected and thinking maybe it's because the extra light being lit is causing the problem since my power supply voltage is already too low...

[Ron Rich]

Hi Steve,
You may have figured it out--remove the lamp, or, switch #1 to singles ( terminal strip) and see what happens--Did you OIL it yet ?
Ron Rich

[sooner]

Haha... Well I got the wiper arm reshaped and it's tracking better now. Learned the hard way that I should have marked it before removing it. Duh. Took a lot of trial and error to get it back where it belongs. :-)

The additional light was part of the problem but it still won't rotate without help. It does however work okay when it's laid on it's back so hopefully a proper power supply will fix the problem. There is something in the album cycle that seems to require more torque.

Looking now at lubricating now. Any tips other than using 3-in-One motor oil and lithium grease? Nothing looks easy to get to. Looks like removing the APU will help. Do I need to remove the motor to get to it? What about the push buttons? The mechanism under there is hard to even see.

[robnyc]

Steve, the sag to 21VAC (from a nominal 24) is OK IF the motor is operating freely.

Your cobbled power supply is not OK. The box draws approx 3 amps when sending and with credit lights on.

In 1996 I took over a location with derelict Sc and an LS2 hideaway. The white button (installed early 1963)boxes were well worn and gear trains stiff. They worked, but some were slow. I drilled a 1/8 hole in the upper corner of each gearbox and used a small 'zoom spout" hose oiler to feel inside for the gears and oiled them liberally with 20wt non-d oil. There will be runoff so I use a folded paper towel and changed it the following week when I returned to service the location. Obviously, Seeburg never intended these motors to be in service 30+ years. There was a lot more involved in restoring system operation, but this part was simple.

RobNYC

[Ron Rich]

Rob,
LOL--The "white button" SC's were made in late 1961/early 1962 --- thatz over 55 years ago !! --and their still running !!
Steve I would NOT use "lithium grease"--see the FAQs on lubes-- Ron Rich

[sooner]

Feb 20, 2019 3:04:53 GMT robnyc said:

Steve, the sag to 21VAC (from a nominal 24) is OK IF the motor is operating freely.

Your cobbled power supply is not OK. The box draws approx 3 amps when sending and with credit lights on.

Yes, I'm only using my cobbled power supply for short intervals to test so it doesn't overheat.  I plan on buying a proper transformer and have read somewhere that 50 watts is okay. Do I need a 75 watt since it's drawing 3 amps?



I did manage to get some oil on one of the motor bearings and that helped. Now it rotates on it's own in the upright position when an album is selected. I'm a little nervous about disassembling it to get to the other motor bearing and gears without a service manual.



After oiling the electromagnet used for the album cycle began buzzing quite a bit. Don't know if it had something to do with the oiling or just coincidental.