Advice for repair/ideas, Rock-Ola 442, making some progress

[ollie]

Hi there,
My name is Ollie and I live in Stockholm Sweden.
I am now a member of this board as well.

Background, I´m in the process of trying to get a Rock-ola 442 to run again.

I do know electronics ok, have some training in the field, but not on the highest level, but I can definately work a multimeter and measure my way thru..so to speak.

I have spent many an hours reading up/going thru YouTube etc etc on these machines now...so, I´m slowly building up knowledge so to speak..

My problem: and where I am now...
the selection is made ok, but it will not scan/spin the record carousel, and since it does not, no further movement from there on.
at all.. if I toggle the sevice-lever to "Scan" , it does nothing, and in "operation", like mentioned, it stops
right after the selection is made, (right after the "write in" process is completed)
And,
I can not see any voltage to/on the motor (supposed to be 28V to the motor). nothing..


I have lubed it all good, and the arm moves nice and easy..Platter actually spins ok in operation.
I have also cleaned the relays, measured them and "seems" ok, I can feel them clicking in operation. All fuses are measured while mounted (in holders) and are ok. Had to change out 2 of them initially. the 24v bulb is now replaced and does lit up briefly (a blink) on "write in" process.

The relay control board (the box that sits mounted under the counter wheel/"popularity counter"?) I have opened up and see nothing clicking/moving
in "scan"...
I am beginning to suspect that possibly the power (28v) supposedly going thru the relays is not happening? but, I do not know for sure..

I should however mention that at one point it DID Indeed spin the carousel ever so briefly, a few seconds, as it was resetting/ajusting itself..I did see it.

- but then went back to not responding, so, I think there is a component, something? that all of a sudded managed to close / function
and send power to the motor, allbeit breifly...

Many thanks for reading,
Cheers, Olle

[Ron Rich]

Hi Ollie,
If you have not done so, please read the "Hi Newbies" post in our FAQ's section.

On your phono-- Have you checked the AC voltage- ( the is both "25 V AC, and 25 VDC" in that phono--see the schematics)- Is the AC circuit breaker tripped ?  Have you tested the MicroSwitches on the cam (see the FAQ's, again) ? Usual cause for the basket not turning is a bad MicroSwitch--OR, the cam follower inside the basket cam is jammed ! If the later case- CAREFULLY, with the power OFF, back off the basket motor- Oil/grease that cam follower & pray that it has not ruined the cam--yet !

You can not "test fuses" in circuit--must at least remove one side of the fuse to test it. Ron Rich

[ollie]

Hi, Thanks abunch Ron! Appreciate it.
Yes, I have read all of the "Hi Newbies", but will give it another round.

Ok, Great, I at least know the MicroSwitches on the cam in the back (3 of ém) are aligned correctly when the gripper arm is in its "ready to run" position..meaning, they sit where they are supposed to, (correct according to the 476 service manual and You tube Videos I've studied.
One of em sits in that little notch, and is not pressed at that point. Arm is resting on its stop hanging over the basket.

I still havent bought the 442 Service Manu, see how far I get with the 476 model manual I do have) probably will have to bite the bullet and pay/download a more 440-ish typ manual.


I have briefly measured the functionality of the switches, and they seem ok, but I´ll check again.
I´ll get back to that final result later.


Added info: I can indeed run the basket via the knurled knob on the motor, so, it spinns ok manually. but I never see
voltage (DC) hitting the motor, Nothing..(I have measured while briefly holding Scan function toggle, etc)
Possibly "a Jam" like you said, but what is stopping it from spinning on motor, but not when I manually spin the knurled-knob on the actual motor underneath it? ..hmmm..hehe!..

So, You are saying there is a "cam follower inside the basket" ? hmm, I have been under there with my head and tried to see if anything
might stop it from moving, but nothing visible..?hmm, What should I look for? (it ain´t the thing that slides inside the "wheel" attached
to the basket, whit a lever/rod that triggers A/B sides ? right? or am I confusing things here?)

Fuses are tested removed from the machine and inside, to verify they are in contact with the housing. all are ok now.
like I said, I do get a "wild" kachong! and snap sound from the machine/relays at the end of write in process, (reset of credit and relays hammering etc) but there it stops.

"AC circuit breaker tripped", well, As far as I can see, there are only glass fuses in this machine, nothing tripping, but I might be wrong..? will investigate / look more..


Possibly a Jam like you said, but what is stopping it from spinning ?

Many Thanks !

[ollie]

And, I will also start measuring the AC voltages a bit more, as you recommended.

Question: Is there a specific point/pin
that you would recommend I measure on/look for, that might give a hint ?

One thing that I was thinking is possibly a diode (recifier?) problem?
but iy´s just a guess, I´ve had that fault on a channel switching circuit for a guitar amp once..

mnay thanks!
Ollie

[jukenorman]

Hi Ollie,
The 476 and 442 are quite different, I would definitely invest in a manual. If the magazine motor doesn't run when you operate "scan" and you have actually seen it run as per your first post - albeit you don't know how, and also since you can't see voltage at the motor - the problem is almost certainly one of the cam micro switches.
Norman.

[ollie]

Thanks alot Norman, I´ll check them out and see what I get.
will get back to you soon as I have the results.
Have a nice weekend,
Cheers, Ollie

[ollie]

Hi All.
Short update, yesterday I went thru/checked/measures all the switches on the cam, all are Ok. (3 in total on this model)
And yes, I disconnected the cabling on them and checked. all of them act the same, none is shorted or stuck , so to speak.
So, unfortunately, I have to go deeper into this.

This 442´s background is that it ran 5 years ago (for the guy who ownes it) when he bought it at another location, But,
right after it was transported to new owners house, it did not run on initial startup after installed in his house..bummer..and
has sat since then...
So, my idea was that something had come loose during transportation, but no matter how I search/dig/feel..I can not
find anything that seems to have come loose..(I work on cars (engines) quite a bit, so I´m somewhat used to how stuff
is supposed to look/feel when mounted correctly)
I have pictures but I´m not sure I can attach here on this board.? no problems if not.

It´s a former German machine, (made in Chicago) so, runs on 230Volts (220V setting).
I will start to measure the Voltages in the machine next..28V you said..


Question: Can any of you guys recommend a good reliable Link where I can Buy and Download a proper 442 Service manual ?

So, once again, it picks the selection, spins left side-disk and then stops when it´s supposed to spin (right-hand disk)and magazine and pick the actual record.


Many thanks for your support.

Cheers, Ollie

[Ron Rich]

Hi Ollie,
How ? did you check the MicroSwitches-- Did you follow the procedure in our FAQ's section ? Speaking of which---- Look there for places to obtain the Service Manuals. Ron Rich

[ollie]

Hello Ron.
Let me try to describe it like this:
if top and bent leg/connector of the switch is A.
and the next one down is B and lowest one (furthest from A) is C, then
I get this:
Switch pressed in= A+B goes connected. ( A and C not connected)
Switch Not pressed in= A+C are connected.
Multimeter in diod/ "beep mode" , ohms are about 0.03 thru switch.

I will check out procedure in the FAQ, I read earlier that an alanogue meter is preferred.
(unfortunately, I don´t have one avail at the present time)

Thanks a lot!

[Ron Rich]

Hi Ollie,
One can not check the action of a MicroSwitch with a digital meter-- It will not "see" the "skips". If no Analog meter is available, use a battery powered continuity checker-- I suggest a #112 lamp with an AA battery-- Micro Switch brand switches ( as well as most others) have their terminals marked "C" , or "COM", "NO" & "NC". Ron Rich

[ollie]

Thanks Ron.

And, I think I just got scammed...Or, do you know if these guys files are ligit?
www.jukeboxmanuals.com/
paid 25 USD, was sent a link, And the file is corrupt... hmmm... "locked".

Thanks, Olle

[Ron Rich]

Sorry, Ollie,
You did not read our off topic "scams" nor our FAQ's "Hi Newbies" posts---I have no idea about these people-- I can tell you that they have not answered my question-- Ron Rich

[ollie]

Well, I emailed em and just got a reply back from "somebody" as to what to use (Adobe) and
if I knew how the downloaded "Locked" .pdf should work etc.
I hope they are willing help me out, but,

Highly doubt It will ever work or I´ll see a refund.
But it could be worse.
it is what it is.

Thanks for your help..
I´ll try working some more on the Box in the coming days.

[ollie]

Just wanted to let you know, I got the downloaded "problem manual" to work for me, The company who sold
the download (.pdf) stepped up and helped me out in getting the link to work.
So, they seem to be trusted and all that. Now, time to study the schematics and see if I can make some use of it.
Cheers, Olle

[Ron Rich]

Ollie,
Thanks for this posting- glad it worked out. Ron Rich