Seeburg 3WA Wallbox

[jukenorman]

Hi Gordon,
You can check the coil resistance with a meter on ohms. The number and letter coils should be the same. Something doesn't seem right though - the transfer relay shifts pulses from letter to number stepper so if the number coil was open circuit, you would get letter pulses only and you previously said that the letter stepper is responding to both number and letter pulses, suggesting a transfer relay related issue?

Norman.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Gordon,
Meter that coil Ron Rich

[gordo]

Hi Norman and Ron,

Thanks for your support.

I removed both coils.
The letter coils measures 247.8 ohms.
The number coil measures 1.8 ohms.

So, I assume the number coil is no good.
I don't expect it can be repaired?
so, I guess I need to start looking for a replacement (no idea where I can find one?).

Yes, Norman, the original problem still exists with the letter stepper responding to both pulses.
I have still been unable to find the cause.

Regards
Gordon...

[Ron Rich]

Hi Gordon,
Something's not right with that coil-- can you remove/replace the wire on it ?
Were both the number and letter wheels resetting, all the way home ? Was the "reset rely coil" being energized while the step-up coil was moving -- did it hold for a few seconds before it began stepping again ?
Ron Rich

[gordo]

Hi Ron,

I doubt if I'm the first person to look at this coil.
The paper wrapping was held in place with some old tape.

When I removed the paper, one wire was soldered firmly in place.
The other wire just fell out and was not attached to anything.
I cannot even work out where it was attached. I cannot find a second wire?

Only the letter wheel was turning, the number wheel never moved.
If I turned it (by hand) during the process, a selection would be made, but no powered movement.
The letter wheel returned home.

Yes, the reset relay coil was being energiged 'in time' with the letter stepper.
Yes, it held for a few seconds before stepping again.

Cheers

Gordon

[jukenorman]

Hi Gordon,
It's a coil, so one wire will go into the centre for the start of the winding and the other will be on the outside at the finish. Is the connected wire on the outside? If you can find the broken wire you can reconnect it - but there's a bit of a technique to doing it! Can you post a picture?

Norman.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Norman,
What's your "trick" ?? Ron Rich

[jukenorman]

Hi Ron,
Not a "trick" as such, but I've known lots of people have trouble with the very thin wire that used on some coils because they fail to appreciate how delicate it is. They attempt to tin the wire but it just disintegrates with the heat of the soldering iron. I was thinking of Gordon, that if he did find the end of that coil wire he wouldn't want to mess it up! What he would need to do is tin the thicker wire he's joining the coil wire to, wrap a couple of turns of the coil wire around it, then grip the joint end with long nose pliers to prevent excess heat transfer to the very thin wire and then quickly solder the joint. Add a piece of heat shrink sleeving for mechanical strength.

Norman.

[gordo]

Hi Ron and Norman,

I have not been able to lacate a 'starting wire'.

I will have another look, but it appears someone previously tried this and it a bit 'hacked up'.
It looks like they removed the thick coating with a box knife and have cut through other wires in the rear.
I have sent emails to a few places around the world looking for a replacement.

The method you describe, Norman, is how the existing wire is attached.

I will keep you informed.

Thanks Gordon..

[Ron Rich]

Hi Gordon,
If there is a "small motor repair" shop in your area, you might get them to re-wind that core-- I would expect that to be your least expensive way out, as you know, your government has made shipping into the country, prohibitive. Ron Rich

[jukenorman]

Hi Gordon, Ron,
It's not particularly difficult to rewind a coil by hand as a one off - just a bit of a pain! You need a micrometer or good digital caliper to measure the size of the existing varnished wire to enable you to buy the correct gauge of wire. Don't worry about counting turns, just make sure that the finished coil is dimensionally the same as the original.

Norman.

[gordo]

Hi Ron and Norman,

Thinking I had nothing to lose, I attacked the coil housing with my Dremmel.

I removed the coil and joined the 5-6 broken wires.
I could not find where to join a new wire, but added it at a point near the edge.
Looks really rough, but now read 242 ohms!

I will reinstall it and again check all the contacts and start again.

Yes Ron, shipping from the US to Australia is now a nightmare.

Cheers Gordon
Happy Australia Day!

[Ron Rich]

Hi Gordon,
Good luck-- let us know !
Ron Rich

[gordo]

Well, I didn't expect the coil to work (I expected it would short out).

However, the number stepper now is stepping.

The latest problem is is steps very rapidly all the way to the end. It does not stop.
It screams until I switch off the power.

I guess 'one step forward, two steps back'.

The reset magnet jambs down and does not lift off.
I suspect a contact is either too close (and the power contines to jump across the points) or not releasing.

Cheers
Gordon..

[Ron Rich]

Well, I, expected it wood work ! LOL Ron Rich