Seeburg 3WA Wallbox

[Ron Rich]

Hi Gordon,
Dija read the sticky on "contacts" ?? What "kinda" meter ? Ron Rich

[gordo]

Hi Ron and Norman.

G'day from Australia.

Ron, I have read the 'sticky', but I will re-read it to be sure.
I have a Fluke 83V multimeter.

Norman, I will check the voltage. I assume I simply set the meter on volts, and test across both sides of the coil?

Unfortunately, I am away for a few weeks, so a short delay in further checking.
I'll let you know.

Stay safe.
Thanks for your time.
Gordon...

[jukenorman]

Hi Gordon,
Yes set the meter for DC volts but check the voltage to ground, doesn't really matter which coil contact (but to be doubly sure, check both sides!). We'll hear from you in due course!

Norman.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Gordon,
I hope this "time away" amounts to a GOOD time away !! -- Stay safe-- talk to you soon-- Ron Rich

[gordo]

Hi Ron and Norman,

Unfortunately the time away is not for pleasure, it's 2 weeks Jury Duty.
I guess you guys have the same sort of thing.

Anyway, I measured the power to the Transfer Relay, 25.65 volts.
The DC Relay measures about the same.

All I'm getting now is a 'chattering' of the letter stepper. It's not a clear step any more.
I suspect a poor contact?

After reading the manual (page 16020) I adjusted the cam switch to operate at second position.

Cheers
Gordon....

[jukenorman]

Hi Gordon,
Yes, you have contact issues. Apart from the relay contacts themselves, there appears to be a plug/socket (J502/P511) that may also be contributing. I hope your two weeks of jury service go smoothly.

Norman.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Gordon,
READ all of the info on "contacts" in the FAQ's section-- Check/clean/burnish them as described- when you get the chance-- enjoy your "duty"-- as we say over here "lock 'em up---" ! Ron Rich

[gordo]

Hi,

I managed to get some time to look at the stepper.
I made a battery/flash light/ tester and rechecked everything, as Ron suggested.
The plug/socket J502/P511 checked out okay.
I also cleaned every point.
I have run the tester over every wire and joint.

It still only steps the letter stepper.
But this is very weak and does not pull the pawl in all the way.

The first two selections made on the wallbox, nothing happens.
As I make further selections, it gradually improves, and gets to a very weak step, like it is lacking power, but builds up power over time (but only a little).

I previously replaced the 4 caps.
The original Lytic were reading quite high.
300 MFD reads 450, the 25 MFD reads 40. So the new ones read correctly.

The resistors were all good, except one which I replaced.

I cannot check the other 2 'paper' caps. So, I replaced them. (I'm not 100% sure they are correct).
I am thinking of putting the old 'paper' caps back in to see what happens.
Your thoughts? Is this silly?

Cheers

Gordon...

[Ron Rich]

Hi Gordon,
Worth a try-- caps were not exceeding high-- Ron Rich

[jukenorman]

Hi Gordon,
I don't think you should change the capacitors - that's just clutching at straws! Your stepper is actually doing very little, you need to approach this in a more logical manner. The capacitors you have changed aren't really coming into play anyway!

To go back over what has already been said - the first pulse from the wallbox passes through the normally closed contact EA of the transfer relay to the letter stepper so EA must be clean and your pulses must be good. In the Wurlitzer section there is a diagram of an LED tester that I posted in May 2021 (link below) that can be used to check the pulses. You need to be getting good pulses from the wallbox - I'm beginning to get concerned that you're not!  (Edit - the 2050 thyratron comes into play here, see next post)

jukeboxaddicts.proboards.com/thread/2948/wallbox-stepper-selection-problem-wurlitzer

That first pulse energises the letter step relay and its normally open contact RA pulls in the transfer relay (which is not happening, so you are falling at pretty much the first hurdle). With the stepper powered, manully operating the letter step relay contacts should energise the transfer relay. This is a simple check to carry out. The operation of the tranfer relay is crucial.

Norman.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Guyz,
The above post made me think that just maybe- you have a poor 2050 tube ?? Also-- check the bias on that tube -- DC voltage must be OVER (-)17 DC-- should be more in the 20 volt range-- bad rectifier ?? Ron Rich

[jukenorman]

Oops! The above post has made me realise that I was forgetting about the 2050!

Norman.

[gordo]

Hi Norman and Ron,

Sorry for the delay in replying, a few matters to attend to.

I don't know how to check the 2050 DC voltage (sorry, I'm not smart enough).

So, I swapped it with the 2050 in the TEU-1. Now the jukebox selectors don't work, but, the letter stepper is again very strong.
I suggest the 2050 is no good.

When I select from the wallbox, the letter stepper goes very strong, but, the number stepper is not not moving unless I manually depress the reset magnet.
It does not move on it's own.
When I depress the reset magnet, it switches power to the number letter, and it steps strongly until the end.
The transfer relay does not move. It does have 25 V.

Another odd thing....
When I check the continuity on the RL contacts, I need to (manually) hold the Reset Magnet down for it to 'beep' my multimeter.
I unsoldered the wires to check it was okay, and it then 'beeps' when I test it.
This seems odd to me. I thought it should make contact (beep) without having to remove the wires.

So, I feel like I am making some progress, just need to wait for a few weeks to ship a 2050 from the US.

Thanks for your time and patience.
Cheers
Gordon...

[Ron Rich]

Gordon,
I said to check the bias voltage on the 20450 tube-- you just did-- if the other one works, it's OK-- ( Check DC output of the selenium rectifier-- must be, above 17 VDC)
Gonna "YELL" at you now-- READ, the contact info in FAQ's -- You can NOT check contacts with a digital auto-range meter, nor a "beeper"! Ron Rich

[gordo]

Hi Ron,

I did make (as you suggested) a battery/flashlight checker to check all the contacts.
I used it and it works well.

The results for the RL contact was the same, I just thought it easy to explain using 'beeps'.

Cheers Gordon..