Seeburg 3WA Wallbox

[jukenorman]

Hi Gordon,
You absolutely have to determine why the transfer relay isn't energising. To recap -

"The first pulse energises the letter step relay and its normally open contact RA pulls in the transfer relay (which is not happening, so you are falling at pretty much the first hurdle). With the stepper powered, manully operating the letter step relay contacts should energise the transfer relay. This is a simple check to carry out. The operation of the tranfer relay is crucial."

Contact RA switches ground, first make sure the ground is present (the same ground goes to contact RB). Since you say you've dealt with the contact itself, you need to then trace the circuit through the plug/socket to the transfer relay.

Norman.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Gordon,
A couple of posts back you talk about the"RL" contacts-- and that you had to un-solder them-- NOPE-- Power off-- check'um with the test lamp. If it's glowing brightly, no "skipping' as it turns on-- it's OK--flickering /not bright-- it's not able to carry current and need to be serviced --
Ron Rich

[gordo]

Hi Ron and Norman,

I intend to trace each wire (against the schematic where I can).
I will remove those contact points to ensure they are making good contact.

Norman, the letter step relay is now working (with the changed 2050 valve) but still not moving the transfer relay.
I will check the earth and all the contacts.

One positive thing is that the number and letter stepper will now work, although manually.

Are valves 2050 and 2051 interchangeable?

Unfortunately it all seems a bit academic at the moment.
I ordered a new 2050 valve, only to be refunded as US is not shipping to Australia at present.
I will try the European suppliers.

Thanks again for your time and knowledge.
Cheers Gordon

[Ron Rich]

Hi Gordon,
Yes-- for all practical purposes 2050/1051's interchange-- The US has no restrictions on shipping-- It's your country that insists only on "overnight" shipments-- VERY, expensive, as you know ! ( I can/will send you one, if you will pay the price ? ) Ron Rich

[cedric]

Feb 16, 2022 22:27:16 GMT gordo said:

I ordered a new 2050 valve, only to be refunded as US is not shipping to Australia at present.
I will try the European suppliers.


Hello Gordon,
If you need, I can order for you and send to you if it's easyer. Generaly, when in stock, I've got item in24h.
Have a nice day, Cedric

[cedric]

I hadn't see that Ron had already suggested the same thing. ;o)

[jukenorman]

Hi Gordon,
I couldn't actually believe that in a country the size of Australia that it wasn't possible to buy a 2050 - so I tried and I failed! However on Aussie ebay, somebody is selling 2D21 thyratrons fairly cheap, which would work OK but you would have to construct a bespoke Octal to B7G adaptor (not impossible but a bit of a faff!). Alternatively, you could replace the 2050 with an SCR (thyristor).

Norman.

[gordo]

Hi all,
Thanks for the offers of shipping me a 2050.

Norman, anything remotely relating to jukeboxes is generally not available in Australia.

Fortunately I have been able to find a seller in the US who can send me a 2050 for reasonable shipping.
I hope it arrives quickly so I can continue.
Cheers Gordon

[Ron Rich]

Gordon,
Let me know how he's shipping it ?? Ron Rich

[cedric]

Hi Gordon,
Maybe you can find someone with a tube tester not far from you.
Cedric

[gordo]

Hi All,

While I am waiting for new 2050 valve to arrive, I have....

Cleaned, tested and adjusted every set of contact points. They are all smooth and clean.
Checked every solder joint and wire.
Removed the DC Relay and the Transfer relay to clean and adjust them.
Checked every trace on the Stepper Electronic Unit.

What now happens when I select through the wallbox is, the letter stepper, steps very well.
The DC relay and Transfer relay still do not move.
If I (manually) move the DC relay, it activates the Reset Magnet and then the stepping motion moves to the number stepper.
If I manually move the Transfer relay during this time, it holds down.

Ron, I checked the Selenium Rectifier and it reads 53 VDC.
I don't know if I did this correctly?
I just measured between both side while it was going through the cycle.

Norman, I have not constructed your 'pulse counting apperatus' as I don't have any parts.
If you think it's required, I can purchase them.
I do not know why the Transfer Relay does not energise.

Any ideas on anything else I can check?

Thanks again.

Regards
Gordon....

[jukenorman]

Hi Gordon,
Forget about the pulse checker, I was in "AMi Mode" when I was thinking about poor pulses and forgot about the 2050! I think we can safely say that you're getting good pulses. But we're back once again to checking why the transfer relay isn't coming in when the letter pulse relay operates (see previous post at the top of page 5).

With power on, operating the letter step relay manually should pull in the transfer relay - that's what you need to concentrate on. Is the ground present at letter step contact RA? If you physically link out contact RA, does the transfer relay come in? Then it's on to the plug/socket (trace it all through). These are the types of checks you should be performing.

I'm sorry to say but I still suspect it's a poor contact that's the problem, either RA or the plug/socket.

PS Do you know where in Aberdeen your dad came from and when did he leave?

Norman.

[Ron Rich]

Hi Gordon,
No-- "53 volts" is "odd" ! Measure from the negative to positive-- Ron Rich

[gordo]

Thanks Ron and Norman.

I will try to bypass the wiring and connect directly to the RA contact.

I agree, it appears so close to working, I suspect a bad joint/contact.
I think I am overlooking the same problem everytime a check.

Cheers Gordon

P.S. Norman, my Dad was from Keith.
He joined the Royal Navy during WWII and discharged in Australia after the war finished.
Unfortunately he never went back home and lost all contact.

[gordo]

Hi Ron and Norman,

As Norman suggested, I ran a 'jumper lead' from contact RA (or RB, as they are connected) to the Transfer Relay.
It energises the Transfer Relay.
It does the same for the DC Relay.

It gives the same result if I 'jumper lead' from the Transfer Relay to the steel door body.

I assume this is telling me the earth is NOT connecting from RA to the transfer relay.

Or, does this tell me something else?

Cheers Gordon.