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Post by vipertblck on Oct 21, 2018 18:02:36 GMT
box was restored years ago, worked fine; moved a few years back and worked after the relocation just fine. time went on, it sat, and wasn't used. now it does what I believe is called "machine gunning" out of the CCU. sorry if my terminology is incorrect, i'm familiar with the prior box's such as B and C models, so bear with me. all the info I am giving comes from what I experienced with the box, and the service manual p/n 409296
box turns on and as soon as it fires up it starts firing out of the "single pricing unit"-click click click click click. it's a type spu1. the cancel solenoid on the top starts cycling the plunger in and out in and out, which in turn starts rotating the cam and credit switch assembly. also up in front on top by the electrical selector there's a piece on the right side of the box (opposite side from service switch) that is a rod on a spring loaded assembly, this is firing back and forth also. if I completely unplug the pricing unit (CCU) from the box and have it on the bench, the box is silent and not clicking anything.
only thing's I've done since time was limited is take a fine fine sand paper and LIGHTLY attempt to clean the contacts in there. only ones I could see were by the solenoid/plunger which I believe according to my book are U & S. then deeper down into the unit there is contacts Y & Z which I believe are part of the timing relay according to the book again. I did the same to these contacts with the sandpaper. it made no effect.
any help where to start digging is appreciated. thanks kevin |
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Post by Ron Rich on Oct 22, 2018 13:41:04 GMT
Hi Kevin,
I STRONGLY suggest you read our FAQ's section on contacts, before doing anything else ( You may wish to read all FAQ's?). Next throw your "fine sandpaper" away, purchase a burnishing tool, and re-clean the contacts as per our FAQ's section. After doing that, Hold the SPU in the operating position, and slowly, push the plunger (not the "link"), on the cancel coil inward. Once all the way in, just let go. It should "snap" out with a clear "bang". My guess is that it won't--it will be "sluggish". If I am correct, get thee a jug of 20 wt. ND oil and oil all of the rotating parts till it WILL, "snap back", and you should be OK -- One thing you should check--the copper slug that should be in the core stop--if broken and floating inside the coil, or if "missing", will cause the same symptoms--replace it, if need be-- Ron Rich
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Post by vipertblck on Oct 23, 2018 1:17:52 GMT
ron
great info and places to check/read up on, thanks. few things I wanna make sure I understand correctly as i'm referring to the SPU parts diagram from p. 16012 in my manual. push the plunger on the cancel solenoid inward and that is what should "snap back" out as I release it? if not, lubricate all moving parts in SPU. what is this coper slug in the core stop though, I couldn't find anything about that in my book as to what you're referring to.
thanks
kevin
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Post by Ron Rich on Oct 23, 2018 4:23:26 GMT
Kevin,
Yes--the plunger itself, should snap back out---
Copper core stop is not listed in the book as the factory installed it into the rear "support" for the coil--sold only as an assembly. Easy to re-produce, if missing--just a brass brad. Ron Rich
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Post by vipertblck on Oct 27, 2018 16:37:35 GMT
Plunger snaps back out of coil upon release, rotates the credit switch assy. Can’t find the copper plug you mentioned though...directly behind the coil(opposite end of plunger) is just a bracket with 2 screws that holds the coil in place, labeled solenoid bracket. Am I missing it?
Kevin
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Post by Ron Rich on Oct 27, 2018 16:55:57 GMT
Hi Kevin,
OK--is that "happening now", after lubrication, or with out lubrication ?
Brass plug should be dead center in the coil bkt/stop assembly (400958 --old pt. number--may have changed ?). If not there, it MAY be binding inside the coil itself, or, if removed previously, that probably the cause of your "machine gunning".
Ron Rich
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Post by vipertblck on Oct 27, 2018 17:15:44 GMT
UPDATES!!
Unit is oiled and snaps freely. The credit wheel is NOT rotating though. The P/N is correct you listed. There’s no brass plug though. Bracket removed and I see inside the solenoid. The stop bracket has about 1/8” hold in the center, is the copper plug suppose to be in there?
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Post by Ron Rich on Oct 27, 2018 17:30:09 GMT
Yessir--the plunger/coil are "magnetized" due to the missing brass plug--I would GUESS, "Handy Andy", or maybe it was his sister, "Handy Andrew" "adjusted" the plunger throw, in an effort to compensate for the missing brass-- Look at the stop for your Detent coil--same idea, just larger--You can fizzit yourself, or send it to me for a small fee, of $ 2, 000, 001.97 --and not a pennie less, and I will gladly fizzi !
Ron Rich
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Post by vipertblck on Oct 27, 2018 17:52:26 GMT
ron, looking from the backside into the plunger it APPEARS the brass rod is inside there, or stuck in there. is the plunger suppose to be a hollow piece? also how could one have modified the plungers travel to compensate? is the stop for the detent coil youre referring to the pawl arm stop?
thanks
kevin
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Post by Ron Rich on Oct 27, 2018 17:59:15 GMT
Hi Kevin,
Aw, shucks--here I thought I may have a sucker, that would finance my "golden years"-- sounds as if the brass is correct--you should see it on "both sides" of that bracket? The coil housing position itself (same as the Detent coil), is "adjustable"-- see the Service manual-- The plunger is not hollow-- Ron Rich
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Post by vipertblck on Oct 27, 2018 17:59:38 GMT
the credit wheel IS rotating now with the machine gun effect...
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Post by vipertblck on Oct 27, 2018 18:02:51 GMT
ron,
thanks, the only part of this small 1/8" brass rod I see is inside the actual plunger when viewed from the backside with solenoid bracket removed.
kevin
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Post by vipertblck on Oct 27, 2018 18:08:06 GMT
one thing i'm noticing is on the timing relay, the y contact is "sparking" as the machine gunning occurs. not sure if that's relevant or not, just want to share as much info as I can while i'm here. box isn't always accessable for me and is hard to get out and work on. so when I have time and can do it, wanna be as thorough and share as much as I can.
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Post by Ron Rich on Oct 27, 2018 18:11:07 GMT
Kevin,
Look at the rear coil BRACKET-- this is what should have a brass plug in it's center-- Hold it up to the light--can you see through it? If so, the brass plug is missing--did you look at the Detent coil (stop) ? Ron Rich
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Post by vipertblck on Oct 27, 2018 18:31:55 GMT
ron,
yes the rear coil bracket DOES have a through hole and visable. held up to sky, I CAN see through it, i'd say about 1/8" diameter. guess the plug is missing; what confuses me is the box worked before it sat for a prolonged period, how could this be possible? the denent coil stop, not sure what this is. i'm looking at the parts diagram and don't see any detent coil listed.
kevin
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